speedometer help

Discussion of STOCK TripMinder®, audio, video, LED, capacitors, instrument clusters and controls, integrated circuitry and boards, low voltage, message center, resistors, speedometers, tachometers, transistors and systems.

Re: speedometer help

Postby oldschool1 » Sun Feb 20, 2011 4:24 am

Have you replaced the ignition switch yet?

Click the link in my signature for a little insight into our wonderful pre 1990 ignition switches.
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Re: speedometer help

Postby K MANIAC » Sun Feb 20, 2011 12:36 pm

ecko510vii wrote:I need helo with my speedometer, and gas gauge i have a 1986 bill blass and thr lights went out so I dont know how fast im going I need help


First of all, if you don't know the history of your ignition switch, replace it immediately, like OldSchool1 suggested. The electric power that lights up the digital instruments flows through the ignition switch. I recently found and replaced the original ignition switch in my 1986 Continental.

The digital instrument cluster consists of three readouts, the fuel gauge, the speedometer, and the odometer. You say the fuel gauge and the speedometer "when out", but nothing was said of the odometer. Is it just these two readouts that don't light, or is the cluster completely blank? If one readout lights (odometer) while the other two are dead (speedometer & fuel gauge), then you need a "replacement" cluster.

If all three are blank, then we need to do some checking, but only after you have replaced the ignition switch. The electronic instrument cluster needs two sources of power together to light up. One source is through Fuse #14 (4 amp). Fuse #14 provides continuous 12 volt power to the cluster. The second source is a 12 volt output from the interior lamp relay.

Before I go on, I have to ask the next questions, and they may sound unrelated, but they are, trust me. Do the interior courtesy lights work in your car? Do all the interior lights "light up" when you "lift the door handle and open the door"? Do they light up when you rotate the instrument dimmer (extreme left thumbwheel) all they way up and it "clicks"? If the answer is "NO"to all three questions, then we need to check the power fuses to the interior lamp relay. These are two fuses are fuse #17 (15 amp) and fuse #8 (15 amp).

So here is what I recommend for now. First replace the ignition switch. Then check fuses #14, #17 & #8 for integrity or just replace them. Then report back, in detail, how the cluster works AND how the courtesy lights work. We'll get to the bottom of this, one way or another.

ecko510vii wrote:im located in the south bay if anyone knows a place that knows how to work with mark viis any help please


Most of us here on the forum work on our own cars. We have found that many of the so called mechanics out there don't have a clue how to deal with a Mark VII. And we like to help others learn how to work on their cars.
"This car may be old, but it will still climb Kirker Pass at 110!"- quote of the original owner of my green 1964 Chrysler 300-K

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Re: speedometer help

Postby K MANIAC » Tue Feb 22, 2011 4:11 pm

ecko510vii wrote:All the lights are out including my message center, speedometer, odometer, and fuel gauge turn signals still work, headlighs wor low ad high beam and cruise control still works

No instrument cluster display AND no message center display together indicate either:

Bad ignition switch - If original or unknown age, replace first.
Blown fuse #17 - check and/or replace - Also check and/or replace fuse # 14 & #8
Bad Interior lamp relay - If everything else above checks out good, you may need to replace the interior lamp relay. Double check interior lamp operation. They should light when you lift a door handle, open the door, and when the "Panel Dim" thumbwheel is rotated up and "clicks". This relay may still be the culpret even if the courtesy lights work properly. I am not sure where to find a replacement interior lamp relay other than a wrecking yard.

Check everything listed above and let us know what you do, what you checked, and what does or doesn't operate.
"This car may be old, but it will still climb Kirker Pass at 110!"- quote of the original owner of my green 1964 Chrysler 300-K

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Re: speedometer help

Postby K MANIAC » Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:04 pm

I think it's time for a Bay Area lunch and technical session.
"This car may be old, but it will still climb Kirker Pass at 110!"- quote of the original owner of my green 1964 Chrysler 300-K

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Re: speedometer help

Postby oldschool1 » Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:59 pm

ecko510vii wrote:So I changed the ignition switch, and the speddometer fuel gauge and odometer are still not on but on the bright side lights that didn't work before now light up, I checked the fuses and they are all good????

Help Ive ran out of gas twice in the one week that I have owned this car

Job one; FILL your gas tank. We get between 200 and 500 miles of driving before it goes empty again.

Do your interior lights illuminate when you open the door?

Do your interior lights illuminate when you turn the PANEL DIM switch all the way up?

Are you ~missing~ any fuses?
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Re: speedometer help

Postby K MANIAC » Thu Feb 24, 2011 12:37 am

Antpina88MRKBB wrote:I have the same exact problem as "ecko510vii" has, is there anyone that knows where the interior lamp relay is located? any pics/write ups? it would be very helpful. my interior lamps work with the door handle being pulled and when the doors are opened, ignition switch was the first thing I replaced just because oldschool said so lol. so can anyone assist me? theres a mark at the pick n pull down the street' where is that relay i need to pull?


Ask, and ye shall receive. :D

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"This car may be old, but it will still climb Kirker Pass at 110!"- quote of the original owner of my green 1964 Chrysler 300-K

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1989 Mark VII Bill Blass
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Re: speedometer help

Postby K MANIAC » Thu Feb 24, 2011 1:03 am

Antpina88MRKBB wrote:Wow thanks a bunch, fast action pistol right there. So the relay is it easy to take the relay off? Seems like the hard part would be getting the dash off lol. Also another quick question, under my glove box there seems to be a relay unhooked, little gray rectangle thing, I have no clue where it goes, any ideas? Should I take a pic?

I would guess either the low oil level or the ATC feedback isolation relay. Depends on the color of the wires going to it. You would access the interior lamp relay by removing the cover above the pedals and reaching up from under the dashboard on the driver's side.

Low oil level relay - four wires, Gray/Black/White with Pink Stripe/Red with Yellow Stripe
ATC Feedback Isolation relay - four wires, White with Pink Stripe/Yellow with Black Stripe/Brown with Orange Stripe/Black
"This car may be old, but it will still climb Kirker Pass at 110!"- quote of the original owner of my green 1964 Chrysler 300-K

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1989 Mark VII Bill Blass
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Re: speedometer help

Postby oldschool1 » Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:35 am

K MANIAC wrote:...
You would access the interior lamp relay by removing the cover above the pedals
...

It's times like these that make me understand why Lincoln Mark VIII owners use the phrase GENERATION.

Are your locations and descriptions for
1984,
1985-1987,
1988-1989
or
1990-1992?
Your scans are priceless! The information is long lasting and the number of owners helped by your references is unimaginable, but, we need to know what year and model you're referencing.
Thank you my Friend.

John "Multi-Year-Owner" Dancy
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Re: speedometer help

Postby K MANIAC » Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:03 am

oldschool1 wrote:
K MANIAC wrote:...
You would access the interior lamp relay by removing the cover above the pedals
...

It's times like these that make me understand why Lincoln Mark VIII owners use the phrase GENERATION.

Are your locations and descriptions for
1984,
1985-1987,
1988-1989
or
1990-1992?
Your scans are priceless! The information is long lasting and the number of owners helped by your references is unimaginable, but, we need to know what year and model you're referencing.
Thank you my Friend.

John "Multi-Year-Owner" Dancy

Good point, John. For the record, all of my information references the 1989 model and manuals.
"This car may be old, but it will still climb Kirker Pass at 110!"- quote of the original owner of my green 1964 Chrysler 300-K

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Re: speedometer help

Postby phoenix » Thu Feb 24, 2011 6:54 pm

ecko510vii wrote:Yes everything lighs up when I open th door but still no dash, when I get to the interior lamp relay what do I have to do unplug, clean it or replace it??


i have an LSC so i'm not an expert when it comes to BB, but i would remove the cluster and test it. ideally, this is where you'd plug in a known working replacement cluster and see if that one works. guys, help us out here - can the cluster be tested for resistance or something such? could his cluster be fried?
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Re: speedometer help

Postby phoenix » Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:34 pm

ecko510vii wrote:what's the cluster


the instrument cluster! with the speedometer and other gauges! in your case, digital :D
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Re: speedometer help

Postby phoenix » Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:13 pm

let me make sure.

when you turn the key to RUN... do the other electronic displays light up? like the tripminder and the overhead? most importantly does the tripminder light up? this is critical. post back.
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Re: speedometer help

Postby K MANIAC » Mon Mar 07, 2011 9:29 pm

ecko510vii wrote:Changed the cluster and it didi not work at work at all

K MANIAC wrote:The electronic instrument cluster needs two sources of power together to light up. One source is through Fuse #14 (4 amp). Fuse #14 provides continuous 12 volt power to the cluster. The second source is a 12 volt output from the interior lamp relay.

Ecko - As I said in my previous post, the electronic instruments require two independent sources of power to light up. Given that both your old cluster AND your replacement cluster don't light up when installed in your car, I have a hunch neither was getting at least one source of electric power from the wiring. Before we go any farther, you need to test both your old cluster (which I hope you didn't throw away) and the replacement cluster (out of the car). You will need alligator clipped test leads (I used four below) and a battery.

Image
You should attach three separate test leads to the circuit board on the back of the cluster in the positions shown in the picture above. The two green leads are the two separate 12 volt sources to the cluster. The black lead is the ground. Be sure to attached them carefully to these specific spots.

Image
As you can see in this expanded picture, I connected the two green leads to a common red lead before the test. I connected the red/green leads to the positive post of my car battery. I connected the black lead to the negative post. If your cluster is good, you should get what I got below...

Image

If neither one of the clusters lights up under these test conditions, then both are bad and you need to look farther.

However, if one or both of your clusters light up, then the problem is with the wiring on the car. You need to check for 12 volt power on the connector that attaches to the cluster at the positions corresponding to the two power lead connections pictured above and below.

Image

You should have constant 12 volt power regardless of ignition switch position from the Light Green/Purple striped wire corresponding to the green test lead position on the left. If no power here, fuse #16 is blown or there is an open (or cut wire) between the fuse box and the instrument cluster connection.

You should have 12 volt power with the ignition switch in RUN or ASSY from the Light Blue/Pink striped wire corresponding to the green test lead position on the right. If no power here, then the Interior Lamp Relay is bad or there is an open (or cut wire) between the relay and the instrument cluster connection.
"This car may be old, but it will still climb Kirker Pass at 110!"- quote of the original owner of my green 1964 Chrysler 300-K

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Re: speedometer help

Postby knexster » Sun Jul 24, 2011 7:26 pm

My cluster panel on my 1984 lincoln mark VII decided to burn out on me, it came back for a few seconds 1 or 2 times but when I took it out and did this test on it, it failed. However, when I used my test leads on the specific plug i managed to get a 12v reading for the correlating lines. Any info on the possibilities that i can fix my cluster or easily find another? Thanks for the information!
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Re: speedometer help

Postby TwoTimeSC » Sun Jul 24, 2011 10:33 pm

Either replace your bad digital cluster with a known working one, or have your existing one rebuilt.

I can rebuild yours if you ever find you want to go that route.
You can contact me at polyscroll@hotmail.com.

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Re: speedometer help

Postby nickyb262 » Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:13 pm

This ismt exactly a question specific to this problem.. although i am having the same problem.... K MANIAC... that cluster test that u so beautifully explaned... amazing.... u really need to get with some 1 and have this put up as 1 of the viewable pdf's in the tech section at the clubs home page...
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Re: speedometer help

Postby Compeau22 » Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:12 pm

im having the same issues with my 86 bb as well except it will only work at random i changed the ignition switch but no difference when it does work if i hit the brakes it will flicker on an off then eventually come back on my headlights do the same thing to when i turn them on or off it will flicker. one weird thing is the it has an shows 88 thousand miles on it but lately it onlu shows 32 thousand haha i dont know what i should be checking maybe a headlight switch or something? any help would be great thanks
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Re: speedometer help

Postby mikeceli » Sat Mar 02, 2013 12:56 am

Compeau22 wrote:im having the same issues with my 86 bb as well except it will only work at random i changed the ignition switch but no difference when it does work if i hit the brakes it will flicker on an off then eventually come back on my headlights do the same thing to when i turn them on or off it will flicker. one weird thing is the it has an shows 88 thousand miles on it but lately it onlu shows 32 thousand haha i dont know what i should be checking maybe a headlight switch or something? any help would be great thanks



Did you change from metric to english, on the Trip Computer?
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Re: speedometer help

Postby Compeau22 » Sun Mar 03, 2013 8:20 pm

no but i've changed it back an forth several times but i did notice today while i was driving an my thermometer/compass was stuck on Celsius until my dash would start working then it automatically switched back to Fahrenheit all i know is there's a short somewhere in a wire a light bulb or a switch i don't know sucks its been so cold i give up looking to quick
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Re: speedometer help

Postby Compeau22 » Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:18 am

If anybody has any input I could really use it thanks
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Re: speedometer help

Postby lpjbird » Fri May 31, 2013 11:43 am

mikeceli wrote:
Compeau22 wrote:im having the same issues with my 86 bb as well except it will only work at random i changed the ignition switch but no difference when it does work if i hit the brakes it will flicker on an off then eventually come back on my headlights do the same thing to when i turn them on or off it will flicker. one weird thing is the it has an shows 88 thousand miles on it but lately it onlu shows 32 thousand haha i dont know what i should be checking maybe a headlight switch or something? any help would be great thanks



Did you change from metric to english, on the Trip Computer?


Compeau22 or Anyone out there,

[b][b]I also have the same problem on my 1985 continental Base as you describe above with the same things happening when I turn on the lights, adjust the dimmer, or putting on the brakes at times. I've replaced the ignition switch, Alt., voltage regulator, starter solenoid, battery, and replaced all the wiring including fusible links from the battery to the solenoid then to the Alt... It's driving,( no pun intended) me crazy! There has to be a loose wire, bad fusible link, connector or a ground wire loose, or something right there in plain sight but I just can't find it, and trust me I've looked over & over, time after time and can't locate it. The radio seems to be playing ( no pun intended) a part in this also, it doesn't remember the last station played after ignition is turned off and the front speakers don't work but just here and there. Seems like when I make a left turn they come on sometimes for a while & then just stop. I've replaced all the fuses twice checked connections, grounds I can find and nothing seems to help. Everything else works fine, inside & outside lighting, trip and warning lights, it all works. Did you ever locate your problem and if you did could you fill me in before I lose what mind I have left? Thanks JR Bondy :? :? :?
[/b][/b]
JR Bondy; Is the proud owner of a 1985 Continental Base -w- 5.0
If I knew I was gonna live this long I would've taken better care of myself. (Bobby Lane)
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Re: speedometer help

Postby tomnh » Fri May 31, 2013 1:55 pm

lpjbird wrote:
mikeceli wrote:
Compeau22 wrote:im having the same issues with my 86 bb as well except it will only work at random i changed the ignition switch but no difference when it does work if i hit the brakes it will flicker on an off then eventually come back on my headlights do the same thing to when i turn them on or off it will flicker. one weird thing is the it has an shows 88 thousand miles on it but lately it onlu shows 32 thousand haha i dont know what i should be checking maybe a headlight switch or something? any help would be great thanks



Did you change from metric to english, on the Trip Computer?


Compeau22 or Anyone out there,

[b][b]I also have the same problem on my 1985 continental Base as you describe above with the same things happening when I turn on the lights, adjust the dimmer, or putting on the brakes at times. I've replaced the ignition switch, Alt., voltage regulator, starter solenoid, battery, and replaced all the wiring including fusible links from the battery to the solenoid then to the Alt... It's driving,( no pun intended) me crazy! There has to be a loose wire, bad fusible link, connector or a ground wire loose, or something right there in plain sight but I just can't find it, and trust me I've looked over & over, time after time and can't locate it. The radio seems to be playing ( no pun intended) a part in this also, it doesn't remember the last station played after ignition is turned off and the front speakers don't work but just here and there. Seems like when I make a left turn they come on sometimes for a while & then just stop. I've replaced all the fuses twice checked connections, grounds I can find and nothing seems to help. Everything else works fine, inside & outside lighting, trip and warning lights, it all works. Did you ever locate your problem and if you did could you fill me in before I lose what mind I have left? Thanks JR Bondy :? :? :?
[/b][/b]


I don't have an 85 book to see what is connected to what, so this is a guess. You mentioned that the radio looses memory. There is a separate circuit that isn't through the ignition switch. It is there to supply power to anything that needs memory saved or the like. Sounds like this is part of that.
Someone with an 85 book can look this up and give you the wires to test.

Best I can think of.
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Re: speedometer help

Postby lpjbird » Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:11 pm

Thanks Tom, that sounds like that may be the issue, I should try and find that wiring diag. from the 85 book and test the wires. I've been a bit under the weather but finally am ready to get back at it and solve this problem once & for all. Anyone with an '85' book that could help me out would be great. Thanks again... :?
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Re: speedometer help

Postby Bottz » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:16 pm

i have the same problem but speedometer works but when the lights go on tach drops to zero and fuel gauge
shows it full .Fuel shows its full even when lights are off someone told be there is a orange wire by the drivers kick panel that needs to be
re grounded just wondering if anybody has done that new member here join yesterday 1989 lsc
Thanks
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Re: speedometer help

Postby tomnh » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:39 pm

Bottz wrote:i have the same problem but speedometer works but when the lights go on tach drops to zero and fuel gauge
shows it full .Fuel shows its full even when lights are off someone told be there is a orange wire by the drivers kick panel that needs to be
re grounded just wondering if anybody has done that new member here join yesterday 1989 lsc
Thanks

Ahh the orange wire fix.
It is a grounding problem for the LSC and fairly typical.
Do this. remove the D/S panel by the parking brake. you will see a cluster of wires. Find the solid orange wire. Splice a wire to the orange wire and a good ground. Replace panel. All fixed. :D

I had the exact problems on both of my LSCs, but it is an easy fix. :lol:
The other way to fix it is to remove the instrument panel and redo all the grounds . :( couple of days work. I prefer the orange wire my self .....

Now go to welcome and tell us about your self and your ride too. Photos too, we love them :D
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