tie rod ends (solved)

Discussion of STOCK column, pump, rack, pinion, linkage systems.

tie rod ends (solved)

Postby phoenix » Sat Aug 07, 2010 10:40 am

removed the pin and castle nut, then tried smacking the spindle with a hammer near the tie rod ends to bust it loose but it won't come loose. other than having to buy a special tool, what options do i have?

also, the nut between the inners and the outers, i am able to turn it counterclockwise like 1/4 of a turn (it turns the outer tie rod with it), but then it doesn't go any further. i know i am supposed to loosen that nut... how do i do that?

unfortunately the shop manual is of no help here...

thanks, guys!
Last edited by phoenix on Tue Aug 10, 2010 1:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image Image

1990 LSC SE (a.k.a. "Christine")
1991 LSC (a.k.a. "Ghost")

Christine: Arnott air springs/front, Suncore air springs/rear, CHE rear control arms, 1.5/16" front "Turbo Coupe" bar, Addco 415 rear bar, poly bushings everywhere, 1x2" SF connectors, MM caster plates, KYB shocks, Michelin Defenders, special order factory built Turbo Coupe color scheme cloth LSC buckets (with a matching backseat), factory CD/JBL (resto: Paul Protos)

Ghost: factory air springs, everything stock (except the front buckets out of '88 XR7), factory cassette/JBL (resto: Paul Protos)

latest 3 projects: brake accumulator/system flush (Ghost), rear calipers (Ghost), ignition coil (Ghost)
User avatar
phoenix
REGISTERED USER
 
Posts: 2746
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:12 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: tie rod ends

Postby phoenix » Sun Aug 08, 2010 2:27 am

got the fork from Zone. removed the rotor and dust shield. got the best possible angle and hammered at the fork with the sledgehammer. NOTHING!!! sprayed PB on it, hammered s'more. NOTHING!!!

WTF!!!!!!!!!!!

at this point, screw the boot and the tie rod end (cotter pin broke and is stuck in the stud anyway, the whole tie rod end looks stock), i just want to the stupid thing OUT!!!!!
Image Image

1990 LSC SE (a.k.a. "Christine")
1991 LSC (a.k.a. "Ghost")

Christine: Arnott air springs/front, Suncore air springs/rear, CHE rear control arms, 1.5/16" front "Turbo Coupe" bar, Addco 415 rear bar, poly bushings everywhere, 1x2" SF connectors, MM caster plates, KYB shocks, Michelin Defenders, special order factory built Turbo Coupe color scheme cloth LSC buckets (with a matching backseat), factory CD/JBL (resto: Paul Protos)

Ghost: factory air springs, everything stock (except the front buckets out of '88 XR7), factory cassette/JBL (resto: Paul Protos)

latest 3 projects: brake accumulator/system flush (Ghost), rear calipers (Ghost), ignition coil (Ghost)
User avatar
phoenix
REGISTERED USER
 
Posts: 2746
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:12 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: tie rod ends

Postby jud149 » Sun Aug 08, 2010 7:59 am

I don't know what type of hammer you are using, but you really need to smack the fork hard with a heavy hammer. I use a 4 lb. one. BTW, leave the castle nut partially on the stud so that when it does come loose, the tie rod will stay in place.
'91 LSC, '11 Lexus LS 460
User avatar
jud149
REGISTERED USER
 
Posts: 241
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:36 pm
Location: West Palm Beach, Florida

Re: tie rod ends

Postby phoenix » Sun Aug 08, 2010 3:36 pm

jud149 wrote:I don't know what type of hammer you are using, but you really need to smack the fork hard with a heavy hammer. I use a 4 lb. one. BTW, leave the castle nut partially on the stud so that when it does come loose, the tie rod will stay in place.


thanks! i have a long-**s handle sledgehammer that's like, 5 or 6 lb. just drenched the connection in PB again (ran out of the previous can), gonna get back to it in a bit.

the nut between the inners and the outers, the 7/8" one, that has to be broken, right? and "breaking" it is different from simply turning it 1/4 of a turn counterclockwise, which rotates the tie rod end and can be done easily? thanks!

and... i am doing it right, inserting the fork between the top of the boot (or what's left of the boot by now) and the spindle knuckle?

needless to say, this is my first time doing tie rod ends, and it had to be a stock one on a Midwestern car. LOL! thanks again...
Image Image

1990 LSC SE (a.k.a. "Christine")
1991 LSC (a.k.a. "Ghost")

Christine: Arnott air springs/front, Suncore air springs/rear, CHE rear control arms, 1.5/16" front "Turbo Coupe" bar, Addco 415 rear bar, poly bushings everywhere, 1x2" SF connectors, MM caster plates, KYB shocks, Michelin Defenders, special order factory built Turbo Coupe color scheme cloth LSC buckets (with a matching backseat), factory CD/JBL (resto: Paul Protos)

Ghost: factory air springs, everything stock (except the front buckets out of '88 XR7), factory cassette/JBL (resto: Paul Protos)

latest 3 projects: brake accumulator/system flush (Ghost), rear calipers (Ghost), ignition coil (Ghost)
User avatar
phoenix
REGISTERED USER
 
Posts: 2746
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:12 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: tie rod ends

Postby phoenix » Sun Aug 08, 2010 6:16 pm

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image Image

1990 LSC SE (a.k.a. "Christine")
1991 LSC (a.k.a. "Ghost")

Christine: Arnott air springs/front, Suncore air springs/rear, CHE rear control arms, 1.5/16" front "Turbo Coupe" bar, Addco 415 rear bar, poly bushings everywhere, 1x2" SF connectors, MM caster plates, KYB shocks, Michelin Defenders, special order factory built Turbo Coupe color scheme cloth LSC buckets (with a matching backseat), factory CD/JBL (resto: Paul Protos)

Ghost: factory air springs, everything stock (except the front buckets out of '88 XR7), factory cassette/JBL (resto: Paul Protos)

latest 3 projects: brake accumulator/system flush (Ghost), rear calipers (Ghost), ignition coil (Ghost)
User avatar
phoenix
REGISTERED USER
 
Posts: 2746
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:12 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: tie rod ends

Postby phoenix » Sun Aug 08, 2010 9:58 pm

it's off. beating on the spindle did it. the fork tool is junk and does absolutely NOTHING. beat the spindle, guys!

now the 7/8" inner to outer nut, sigh.
Image Image

1990 LSC SE (a.k.a. "Christine")
1991 LSC (a.k.a. "Ghost")

Christine: Arnott air springs/front, Suncore air springs/rear, CHE rear control arms, 1.5/16" front "Turbo Coupe" bar, Addco 415 rear bar, poly bushings everywhere, 1x2" SF connectors, MM caster plates, KYB shocks, Michelin Defenders, special order factory built Turbo Coupe color scheme cloth LSC buckets (with a matching backseat), factory CD/JBL (resto: Paul Protos)

Ghost: factory air springs, everything stock (except the front buckets out of '88 XR7), factory cassette/JBL (resto: Paul Protos)

latest 3 projects: brake accumulator/system flush (Ghost), rear calipers (Ghost), ignition coil (Ghost)
User avatar
phoenix
REGISTERED USER
 
Posts: 2746
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:12 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: tie rod ends

Postby fremar68 » Mon Aug 09, 2010 6:36 am

phoenix:

If you buy Moog Tie Rod Ends, they come with the Nut to connect the Tie Rod End and the Outer Tie Rod on the Rack and Pinion Set-up. As me how I know.

Because my Rack and Pinion was rusted out on my 1992 Black LSC SE (got it from upper New York state) and the Nut was about frozen on the Outer Tie Rod piece. I had to take back the no name Tie Rod End and get Moog Tie Rod Ends that came with the extra Nut. I believe it's the only Company that does that.

Fred D.
The Chairman
fremar68
BOARD MEMBER
 
Posts: 590
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: Odenton, Maryland

Re: tie rod ends

Postby phoenix » Mon Aug 09, 2010 9:51 am

thanks, Fred!

the problem is to remove the tie rod end in the first place. i am actually no longer pulling the rack. what i thought was a rack symptom i found out to be something different. so right now i just want to replace the tie rod end and get the car off the stands.
Image Image

1990 LSC SE (a.k.a. "Christine")
1991 LSC (a.k.a. "Ghost")

Christine: Arnott air springs/front, Suncore air springs/rear, CHE rear control arms, 1.5/16" front "Turbo Coupe" bar, Addco 415 rear bar, poly bushings everywhere, 1x2" SF connectors, MM caster plates, KYB shocks, Michelin Defenders, special order factory built Turbo Coupe color scheme cloth LSC buckets (with a matching backseat), factory CD/JBL (resto: Paul Protos)

Ghost: factory air springs, everything stock (except the front buckets out of '88 XR7), factory cassette/JBL (resto: Paul Protos)

latest 3 projects: brake accumulator/system flush (Ghost), rear calipers (Ghost), ignition coil (Ghost)
User avatar
phoenix
REGISTERED USER
 
Posts: 2746
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:12 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: tie rod ends

Postby jud149 » Mon Aug 09, 2010 12:17 pm

It's hard following without being there. If you are just trying to remove the tie rod end, place an open wrench on the nut at the end of the tie rod. On the tie rod itself, there is a squarded off area on which to place another wrench. Applying pressure on the nut while holding the tie rod in place should free it up. When removing it, count the number of turns it takes to remove it from the rack. When placing the new tie rod on, turn it the same number of turns to get it back to approximately where the original was. Then drive it to an alignment shop to have the alignment checked. Hopes this helps. Almost forget....Be sure to clean the threads on the rack where the new tie rod will go. It makes it easier to get on.
'91 LSC, '11 Lexus LS 460
User avatar
jud149
REGISTERED USER
 
Posts: 241
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:36 pm
Location: West Palm Beach, Florida

Re: tie rod ends

Postby phoenix » Mon Aug 09, 2010 1:59 pm

Thanks! yeah, just trying to remove the outer tie rod now, and put a new one in. working on the nut seen in this picture between the inner and the outer. couldn't get it to go (counterclockwise) with a regular size 7/8" wrench. gonna try and get my hands on something heavier, like a 15" adjustible wrench, today.

Image

thanks again 8-)
Image Image

1990 LSC SE (a.k.a. "Christine")
1991 LSC (a.k.a. "Ghost")

Christine: Arnott air springs/front, Suncore air springs/rear, CHE rear control arms, 1.5/16" front "Turbo Coupe" bar, Addco 415 rear bar, poly bushings everywhere, 1x2" SF connectors, MM caster plates, KYB shocks, Michelin Defenders, special order factory built Turbo Coupe color scheme cloth LSC buckets (with a matching backseat), factory CD/JBL (resto: Paul Protos)

Ghost: factory air springs, everything stock (except the front buckets out of '88 XR7), factory cassette/JBL (resto: Paul Protos)

latest 3 projects: brake accumulator/system flush (Ghost), rear calipers (Ghost), ignition coil (Ghost)
User avatar
phoenix
REGISTERED USER
 
Posts: 2746
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:12 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: tie rod ends

Postby phoenix » Mon Aug 09, 2010 4:00 pm

ok, pipe wrench and LOADS of PB aren't helping. a neighbor has a heating torch. looks like that's gonna be my final resort... it is supposed to go COUNTERCLOCKWISE, right? :?
Image Image

1990 LSC SE (a.k.a. "Christine")
1991 LSC (a.k.a. "Ghost")

Christine: Arnott air springs/front, Suncore air springs/rear, CHE rear control arms, 1.5/16" front "Turbo Coupe" bar, Addco 415 rear bar, poly bushings everywhere, 1x2" SF connectors, MM caster plates, KYB shocks, Michelin Defenders, special order factory built Turbo Coupe color scheme cloth LSC buckets (with a matching backseat), factory CD/JBL (resto: Paul Protos)

Ghost: factory air springs, everything stock (except the front buckets out of '88 XR7), factory cassette/JBL (resto: Paul Protos)

latest 3 projects: brake accumulator/system flush (Ghost), rear calipers (Ghost), ignition coil (Ghost)
User avatar
phoenix
REGISTERED USER
 
Posts: 2746
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:12 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: tie rod ends

Postby White Lincoln » Mon Aug 09, 2010 6:07 pm

If your replacing the tie rod end, just cut the bolt off.
User avatar
White Lincoln
SITE ADMIN
 
Posts: 3044
Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:27 pm

Re: tie rod ends

Postby phoenix » Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:44 pm

White Lincoln wrote:If your replacing the tie rod end, just cut the bolt off.


cut the nut off? HOW??? :oops: :shock:
Image Image

1990 LSC SE (a.k.a. "Christine")
1991 LSC (a.k.a. "Ghost")

Christine: Arnott air springs/front, Suncore air springs/rear, CHE rear control arms, 1.5/16" front "Turbo Coupe" bar, Addco 415 rear bar, poly bushings everywhere, 1x2" SF connectors, MM caster plates, KYB shocks, Michelin Defenders, special order factory built Turbo Coupe color scheme cloth LSC buckets (with a matching backseat), factory CD/JBL (resto: Paul Protos)

Ghost: factory air springs, everything stock (except the front buckets out of '88 XR7), factory cassette/JBL (resto: Paul Protos)

latest 3 projects: brake accumulator/system flush (Ghost), rear calipers (Ghost), ignition coil (Ghost)
User avatar
phoenix
REGISTERED USER
 
Posts: 2746
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:12 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: tie rod ends

Postby White Lincoln » Mon Aug 09, 2010 11:05 pm

phoenix wrote:
White Lincoln wrote:If your replacing the tie rod end, just cut the bolt off.


cut the nut off? HOW??? :oops: :shock:


My first try would be to use a Dremel tool and some cut off disks. I don't think the bolt part will move to much while cutting into the bolt part.

You could also cut the nut on one side to the bolt and use a chisel to crack it open. Once again with a Dremel.
http://www.harborfreight.com/80-piece-r ... 97626.html

You could also try a grinding wheel on a grinder for either of the above methods.
http://www.harborfreight.com/heavy-duty ... 91223.html

It will be tedious because the metal is so hard on the bolt part, but the nut may be easier. Take your time and in about 30 minutes or so, it will come off. I have cut some real hard stuff with a cutting blade, though it took some time to do.

Good luck.
User avatar
White Lincoln
SITE ADMIN
 
Posts: 3044
Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:27 pm

Re: tie rod ends

Postby phoenix » Tue Aug 10, 2010 1:46 pm

broke it with a pipe wrench.

THAT NUT IS SUPPOSED TO BE BROKEN CLOCKWISE, NOT COUNTERCLOCKWISE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :shock: :shock: :shock:

all i had to do was look more closely at the threads.... :oops: :oops: :oops:

or better yet, THINK. :oops: :oops: :? :?

then the TIE ROD END screws out counterclockwise...

oh God.

:lol:
Image Image

1990 LSC SE (a.k.a. "Christine")
1991 LSC (a.k.a. "Ghost")

Christine: Arnott air springs/front, Suncore air springs/rear, CHE rear control arms, 1.5/16" front "Turbo Coupe" bar, Addco 415 rear bar, poly bushings everywhere, 1x2" SF connectors, MM caster plates, KYB shocks, Michelin Defenders, special order factory built Turbo Coupe color scheme cloth LSC buckets (with a matching backseat), factory CD/JBL (resto: Paul Protos)

Ghost: factory air springs, everything stock (except the front buckets out of '88 XR7), factory cassette/JBL (resto: Paul Protos)

latest 3 projects: brake accumulator/system flush (Ghost), rear calipers (Ghost), ignition coil (Ghost)
User avatar
phoenix
REGISTERED USER
 
Posts: 2746
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:12 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: tie rod ends

Postby White Lincoln » Tue Aug 10, 2010 3:10 pm

phoenix wrote:broke it with a pipe wrench.


Excellent!

phoenix wrote:THAT NUT IS SUPPOSED TO BE BROKEN CLOCKWISE, NOT COUNTERCLOCKWISE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :shock: :shock: :shock:


Ha ha! LOL!!! :lol:

Been there done that. :D
User avatar
White Lincoln
SITE ADMIN
 
Posts: 3044
Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:27 pm

Re: tie rod ends

Postby oldschool1 » Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:07 am

phoenix wrote:broke it with a pipe wrench.

THAT NUT IS SUPPOSED TO BE BROKEN CLOCKWISE, NOT COUNTERCLOCKWISE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :shock: :shock: :shock:

all i had to do was look more closely at the threads.... :oops: :oops: :oops:

or better yet, THINK. :oops: :oops: :? :?

then the TIE ROD END screws out counterclockwise...

oh God.

:lol:

Wow.
I don't have hands-on with that repair so I was clueless.
Thanks for the heads-up.
Moral of the story; If you can SEE the threads then FOLLOW the threads.
User avatar
oldschool1
CLUB MEMBER
 
Posts: 8844
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2008 10:01 pm
Location: Primos, Pennsylvania USA

Re: tie rod ends

Postby gadget73 » Wed Aug 11, 2010 5:02 pm

phoenix wrote:. what i thought was a rack symptom i found out to be something different..



so what was the problem ?
86 Lincoln Town Car, HO swap, big brakes, lots of other stuff
91 LSC SE, triple black, United Exhaust 2.25" exhaust system, ES poly front bushings
User avatar
gadget73
REGISTERED USER
 
Posts: 3101
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2008 3:14 pm
Location: Southern NJ

Re: tie rod ends (solved)

Postby oldschool1 » Thu Aug 12, 2010 1:33 am

Lefty-loosy/righty-tighty ... in reverse.
User avatar
oldschool1
CLUB MEMBER
 
Posts: 8844
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2008 10:01 pm
Location: Primos, Pennsylvania USA

Re: tie rod ends

Postby phoenix » Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:29 pm

gadget73 wrote:
phoenix wrote:. what i thought was a rack symptom i found out to be something different..



so what was the problem ?


Hey guys. The ball joint castle nut was almost off. I found remains of the cotter pin inside the stud. The cotter pin BROKE. :shock: :shock:

Retightened the nut, put a new cotter pin in. All's well now 8-)
Image Image

1990 LSC SE (a.k.a. "Christine")
1991 LSC (a.k.a. "Ghost")

Christine: Arnott air springs/front, Suncore air springs/rear, CHE rear control arms, 1.5/16" front "Turbo Coupe" bar, Addco 415 rear bar, poly bushings everywhere, 1x2" SF connectors, MM caster plates, KYB shocks, Michelin Defenders, special order factory built Turbo Coupe color scheme cloth LSC buckets (with a matching backseat), factory CD/JBL (resto: Paul Protos)

Ghost: factory air springs, everything stock (except the front buckets out of '88 XR7), factory cassette/JBL (resto: Paul Protos)

latest 3 projects: brake accumulator/system flush (Ghost), rear calipers (Ghost), ignition coil (Ghost)
User avatar
phoenix
REGISTERED USER
 
Posts: 2746
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:12 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: tie rod ends (solved)

Postby gadget73 » Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:53 pm

hm, odd indeed. Must have been a bum pin. I've run across a few that felt softer than others.
86 Lincoln Town Car, HO swap, big brakes, lots of other stuff
91 LSC SE, triple black, United Exhaust 2.25" exhaust system, ES poly front bushings
User avatar
gadget73
REGISTERED USER
 
Posts: 3101
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2008 3:14 pm
Location: Southern NJ

Re: tie rod ends (solved)

Postby Ajl0429 » Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:52 pm

I'm trying to get my outer tie rod out the knuckle to and it's stuck I've been beating on it and won't come out. So u guys are saying I should just use a bigger hammer
User avatar
Ajl0429
REGISTERED USER
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2016 1:21 am

Re: tie rod ends (solved)

Postby CDW6212R » Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:24 pm

Ajl0429 wrote:I'm trying to get my outer tie rod out the knuckle to and it's stuck I've been beating on it and won't come out. So u guys are saying I should just use a bigger hammer


Yes, the big trick to it is the hammer weight. It's very hard to break loose BJ's or TRE's with a little 2lbs hammer. But a 4lb hammer works much better, it takes far less arm strength to make that work.

The knuckle has a bump forged to the side of where the tie rod goes into it. That's where it needs to be hit hard. It's the same for the knuckle where the BJ goes in, check out the nice protrusion on the side of the knuckle there.
Don
1991 Red Special Edition, my 2nd SE, dead paint, DWS 255/45/17's on 95 Cobra wheels, and soon; DVD/Navi/backup camera, OBDII and the 347, before custom paint.
98 Mountaineer with Continental DWS 255/55/18's, big sway bars, custom brakes. Soon to be A4WD with XP8 bumpers and wing.

ImageImage
User avatar
CDW6212R
CLUB MEMBER
 
Posts: 5587
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:57 pm
Location: Near Dollywood in TN

Re: tie rod ends (solved)

Postby Ajl0429 » Fri Jan 13, 2017 6:38 pm

Thank you I went out bought the bj tool and a 4 lbs hammer and came right out should used the right tools in the first place
User avatar
Ajl0429
REGISTERED USER
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2016 1:21 am

Re: tie rod ends (solved)

Postby oldschool1 » Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:21 am

Congratulations on the repair!

Start a thread about your NEXT job!

Specialty tools are the best!
User avatar
oldschool1
CLUB MEMBER
 
Posts: 8844
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2008 10:01 pm
Location: Primos, Pennsylvania USA


Return to Steering

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron