1/4 times?

race tracks, track times, tuning, dynos

Re: 1/4 times?

Postby ford4v429 » Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:03 pm

pkv88mkvii wrote:
ford4v429 wrote:timing was off 18 1/2 degrees, YIKES! Surprised it ran at all, let alone as wellas it did... definitely got some spunk now, he ready for a rematch next week :)

Off 18 1/2 degrees? Are you sure you checked it with the spout connector unplugged?


yes- last time we were messing with it just to get it running, found the previous owners had the firing order wrong- surprised it wasnt backfiring, just rough running- went to check timing, marks were hard to see, fixed the firing order, she started up and ran fine, left timing wherever it was as we needed to clean up the balancer, but forgot about it and went on to bigger things...
yesterday scotchbrited the balancer, spraypainted white, wiped off with gasoline rag, got nice white marks to read- really surprised it ran as good as it did- instead of 10BTDC it was almost 9 ATDC (unplugged). did check plugged in just to see advance was working, was like 28 degrees at idle... running strong now, no pinging...tried a couple more degrees, on 87 it pings- will try 89 and see if she'll tolerate a little more...my 89 ran better on 12BTDC(unplugged) and 89 octane without pinging, but every engine is different...my 89 had 140k on it, his is only 90k, so timing chain slop will be different, plus who knows about carbon deposit buildup and whatnot- but anyways, his cars running strong now, drove out to summit racing tonight ('bout a half hour highway trip) and mpg on the trip computer was almost 23- had been 20 last couple times...he's already wanting to throw 4.10s in it.
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Re: 1/4 times?

Postby pkv88mkvii » Fri Aug 23, 2013 2:49 pm

OK. Also keep in mind that you have to look at the right firing order diagram. HO's are different. Also remember #1 is pass. front. Not trying to talk down to you, but people make a lotta common mistakes. I really don't think it woulda been running and driving that much off.
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Re: 1/4 times?

Postby ford4v429 » Sun Aug 25, 2013 8:41 am

rereading the posts in here, guess maybe now hes not too far off...timing set at 12 w/89 made no difference over 10 degrees, both ran 16.6 @ 84, guess thats just all the power shes got... definitely running better, and picked up almost 2 mpg at 12 degrees/89 octane, even if no power gain noticed...

he's still thinking about gears, but i think 410s are a little steep, think 3.73s would be a better compromise... better yet keep the 3.27s and put better headers/intake would probably get the ET similar to 3.73s with little to no loss in hughway driveability/mpg- but gears are a lot cheaper.

in my thinking, stock w/just 3.73s would likely get him to low 15 seconds pretty easy, 4.10s to mid 14s but launch traction will become a huge challenge-its only running 245 rear tires... 4.10 and drag radials would probably get low 14s easily, but anything more is gonna need topend work for some horsepower...hes on a budget, think he is leaning more to gears first, might give a best bang for the buck short term, but mpg is gonna fade fast.
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Re: 1/4 times?

Postby CDW6212R » Sun Aug 25, 2013 4:27 pm

ford4v429 wrote:rereading the posts in here, guess maybe now hes not too far off...timing set at 12 w/89 made no difference over 10 degrees, both ran 16.6 @ 84, guess thats just all the power shes got... definitely running better, and picked up almost 2 mpg at 12 degrees/89 octane, even if no power gain noticed...

he's still thinking about gears, but i think 410s are a little steep, think 3.73s would be a better compromise... better yet keep the 3.27s and put better headers/intake would probably get the ET similar to 3.73s with little to no loss in hughway driveability/mpg- but gears are a lot cheaper.

in my thinking, stock w/just 3.73s would likely get him to low 15 seconds pretty easy, 4.10s to mid 14s but launch traction will become a huge challenge-its only running 245 rear tires... 4.10 and drag radials would probably get low 14s easily, but anything more is gonna need topend work for some horsepower...hes on a budget, think he is leaning more to gears first, might give a best bang for the buck short term, but mpg is gonna fade fast.


Skip the gears, in stock form these cars will gain virtually nothing. The torque converter is a huge factor slowing these cars at take off, and gears do not fix that.

My stock LSC in 1998 went less than a tenth faster in the quarter, with only the gear change from 3.27's to 3.73's.


The car is quicker to 30-35mph, or wherever the 1/2 gear change is. Then the car is slower from there in 2nd gear, to where the car used to shift to 2nd, around 45mph. The loss of acceleration at the beginning of each new gear offsets the initial gain in first.

Unless you can improve the ability of the car to take advantage of bigger gears, stick with 3.27:1 gears.
Don
1991 Red Special Edition, my 2nd SE, dead paint, DWS 255/45/17's on 95 Cobra wheels, and soon; DVD/Navi/backup camera, OBDII and the 347, before custom paint.
98 Mountaineer with Continental DWS 255/55/18's, big sway bars, custom brakes. Soon to be A4WD with XP8 bumpers and wing.

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Re: 1/4 times?

Postby oldschool1 » Mon Sep 02, 2013 12:53 am

Don,
Thank you for a clean and concise explanation of what rear gears do.
I've been trying to say the very same thing for years ... ever since I turned 14.01 with only engine bolt ons, but terse delivery is not my strong point.
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Re: 1/4 times?

Postby 86mkviilsc » Wed Jan 15, 2014 5:16 pm

Can you talk more about these 14 second runs with bolt ons oldschool? Sounds interesting
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Re: 1/4 times?

Postby oldschool1 » Sun Jan 19, 2014 3:14 am

Whoops. My mistake. After looking at the video from ATCO, my best time was probably 15.01 and not 14.01. You'll understand when you get my age.

The pictures are easier post and understand. if i still have them, I'll post them.

Motocraft battery
Thicker battery cables
Smaller starter
MSD ignition coil, distributor, rotor, ignition module (MSD9 or something ... about the size of a carton of cigarettes)
9mm wires
four point, totally a waste of money but looked good, unobtanium spark plugs
K&N oval filter IN THE FENDER connected to the 5 inch or so chrome plated intake tube connected to a 60mm(?) throttle body and spacer
Sunoco 100 (one gallon at a time)
retarded timing
2 1/2" exhaust throughout with high flow catalytic converters and high flow mufflers
removal of anything not needed to pass state inspection including the cigarette lighters
a cold winter evening in Maple Grove or Beaver grove or Maple Springs or something like that.

LincolnMania (Scott) and Gadget (Thain) and BoxMan (Dude) were there. Oh and my Wife turned an 18 in her 2002 Ford Winstar with a half tank of gas and the lights on and the radio playing.

Here's an in car video from Atco, NJ one cold winter night November 26, 2004. The Mark VII in front if me was Tommy Rai, one of the founders of the club. He went up against a new pony. I went up against a Grand National, bracket racing. I got my light FOUR FULL SECONDS before the Pontiac. Good thing I have the video and some pictures because it all seems like a dream now.

http://www.thelincolnmarkviiclub.org/video/20041126a.wmv
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Re: 1/4 times?

Postby oldschool1 » Sun Jan 19, 2014 6:31 am

Found em.
Uploaded a couple.

THE BEGINNING.
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THE MIDDLE.
Rebuilt transmission.
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Exhaust.
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Rear.
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MSD, Edelbrock, dust, dirt.
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JET Chip.
The running joke with this thing was, "It sucked $150.00 out of my wallet, making the overall weight of the car lighter and track times faster." ... Not.
We ran with and without it for hours testing every combination that we could and saw zero difference.
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THE END.
Oldschool2 and Oldschool3 and Oldschool6 became parts for the rest of the fleet.
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Re: 1/4 times?

Postby 2manymarks » Sun Jan 19, 2014 10:33 am

:o I knew you would finally come clean, John. :? ;)
As of July2017, 11 Mark[*] VII's, 3 licensed for the road:
1989 LSC Midnight/Current Red c/c (9G) mostly stock 99k.
1989 LSC Midnight/Current Red c/c (9G) 124k, stock, needs air suspension & bodywork.
1989 Light Titanium c/c (11) Bill Blass - stock. miles unk
1989 LSC Medium Sandalwood (62) Mass air+ 111k FOR SALE $900.
1986 BB (8T) stock 125k (wife'sDD)
1987 BB (4L) stock (miles unk)
1987 Base Model White (9L) 107k (2.73rear)
1984 Turbo Diesel Base model, Platinum (1Q), 131k+ FOR SALE $1000.
Parts cars: 88 LSC, 89 BB, 90 LSC - TLZ 5spd (complete conversion w/extras 4SALE)
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Re: 1/4 times?

Postby CDW6212R » Sun Jan 19, 2014 1:19 pm

Cool John, I love the pictures etc. Parts, parts, and more crap, I love a pack rat. You have it organized at least, I can't find anything when I need it.

I think I got around a 15.5 with mine, that was with a Mustang MAF PCM and no tuning or chip etc. The heads and intake did the most for me, and the exhaust and shift kit of course helped.
Don
1991 Red Special Edition, my 2nd SE, dead paint, DWS 255/45/17's on 95 Cobra wheels, and soon; DVD/Navi/backup camera, OBDII and the 347, before custom paint.
98 Mountaineer with Continental DWS 255/55/18's, big sway bars, custom brakes. Soon to be A4WD with XP8 bumpers and wing.

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Re: 1/4 times?

Postby oldschool1 » Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:47 am

2manymarks wrote::o I knew you would finally come clean, John. :? ;)

I'm just getting older and forgetful.

I would have sworn in court that it was 14.1 but the video from ATCO showed me running 15.5 after Tommy's 13 something and I KNOW that I wasn't anywhere NEAR his five speed.

Wait ... what we we talking about?
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Re: 1/4 times?

Postby floodking88 » Wed Jan 22, 2014 7:36 am

if i may recommend something, you guys could always tune it for your car. moates quarterhorse. you might need to know computers well enough, and/or a good tuning shop/dyno. i can't wait until i overhaul the engine with quite a few bolt ons, and catch up with you guys. my goal is 12's, with no reduction in comfort/mpg.
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Re: 1/4 times?

Postby 86mkviilsc » Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:29 pm

I'll keep you guys updTed come spring when i put in the 4.10s and 2 1/4 dexhaust. I was going to skip the gears but I got them cheap
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Re: 1/4 times?

Postby thunderjet » Fri Jan 24, 2014 5:54 pm

If I had the cash I would just dump a built 408W into a Mark VII. 3900lbs of luxo-barge running 11s :D .
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Re: 1/4 times?

Postby CDW6212R » Fri Jan 24, 2014 7:26 pm

Stroker, a 347 is an easy swap. For the Windsor go to a 427 and use huge heads/intake/exhaust etc. I think the 347 will do okay.
Don
1991 Red Special Edition, my 2nd SE, dead paint, DWS 255/45/17's on 95 Cobra wheels, and soon; DVD/Navi/backup camera, OBDII and the 347, before custom paint.
98 Mountaineer with Continental DWS 255/55/18's, big sway bars, custom brakes. Soon to be A4WD with XP8 bumpers and wing.

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