Electric Fan/3G Alternator Conversion

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Electric Fan/3G Alternator Conversion

Postby Redlyr » Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:16 pm

My next modification for the Mark VII is a 3G alternator/electric fan conversion.
I'm getting a Mark VIII fan and a DCControl 2-speed controller.
What alternators can I use for the conversion? I know I want a 130A 3G alternator. I'm not worried about have to modify the bracket, I know I have to do that. PA Performance makes a direct fit for $280 (not going to happen) and they make one for 94-95 Mustang GTs for $200 (again not going to happen). What car is also compatible? Are 94-04 V6 Mustangs 3G and compatible?
I'm trying to find a good new or warrantied reman for around $100 or so. Like this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-FORD ... ccessories
Thanks.
-Sean
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1990 Clear Crystal Blue Frost Mark VII LSC 5.0 Auto "Detroit Dinosaur"- 96k miles. T5 swap w/CenterForce clutch and 50Resto STS, Full coil conversion w/KYB GR-2/Gas-A-Just struts/shocks, 225/60R16 Fuzion ZRi tires, air silencer delete, BBK O/R H-pipe, custom 2.5" catback w/ Hooker Header's Maxium Flows dumped (BBK chrome unequal shorties, 75mm TB and EGR, and ported Explorer intake in the box)
It is for sale! PM me.

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Re: Electric Fan/3G Alternator Conversion

Postby CDW6212R » Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:45 pm

The bolt on application you need for the Mark VII is a 94ish Continental. There are a few applications that use that same 3G model. All are in that 94/95 range, a Taurus/Sable/Continental, certain engines. None of the Mustang alternators are useful unless you are ready to change more parts.

Search on here for Art's excellent write up for the 3G conversion. I got mine from a local salvage yard for $25, and paid $10 to have it rotated and inspected. The three main bolts have to come out to twist the two halves, to better locate the terminals to the top.

I would recommend DB Electric as a good source, their prices are reasonable. I've bought two 4G's for my two trucks, the costs are just under $1 per amp, plus powder coating if you need that.
Don
1991 Red Special Edition, my 2nd SE, dead paint, DWS 255/45/17's on 95 Cobra wheels, and soon; DVD/Navi/backup camera, OBDII and the 347, before custom paint.
98 Mountaineer with Continental DWS 255/55/18's, big sway bars, custom brakes. Soon to be A4WD with XP8 bumpers and wing.

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Re: Electric Fan/3G Alternator Conversion

Postby Redlyr » Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:04 pm

-Sean
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1990 Clear Crystal Blue Frost Mark VII LSC 5.0 Auto "Detroit Dinosaur"- 96k miles. T5 swap w/CenterForce clutch and 50Resto STS, Full coil conversion w/KYB GR-2/Gas-A-Just struts/shocks, 225/60R16 Fuzion ZRi tires, air silencer delete, BBK O/R H-pipe, custom 2.5" catback w/ Hooker Header's Maxium Flows dumped (BBK chrome unequal shorties, 75mm TB and EGR, and ported Explorer intake in the box)
It is for sale! PM me.

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Re: Electric Fan/3G Alternator Conversion

Postby CDW6212R » Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:17 pm

That may be it, but first confirm the application with the how to threads to be sure. Art listed it in his thread I'm sure. I had read it in a couple of forum threads before doing it, and hunting the alternator.

If you find a definitive list of the proper vehicles, do list them here. That's the hard part of the conversion, getting the right part to start with.
Don
1991 Red Special Edition, my 2nd SE, dead paint, DWS 255/45/17's on 95 Cobra wheels, and soon; DVD/Navi/backup camera, OBDII and the 347, before custom paint.
98 Mountaineer with Continental DWS 255/55/18's, big sway bars, custom brakes. Soon to be A4WD with XP8 bumpers and wing.

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Re: Electric Fan/3G Alternator Conversion

Postby Redlyr » Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:32 pm

I found the article!
http://thelincolnmarkviiclub.org/docume ... ersion.pdf

He used a 1996 Continental 3G, so it would be this one:
http://www.dbelectrical.com/p-4079-new- ... d0052.aspx

It looks different than the one in his article...
-Sean
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1990 Clear Crystal Blue Frost Mark VII LSC 5.0 Auto "Detroit Dinosaur"- 96k miles. T5 swap w/CenterForce clutch and 50Resto STS, Full coil conversion w/KYB GR-2/Gas-A-Just struts/shocks, 225/60R16 Fuzion ZRi tires, air silencer delete, BBK O/R H-pipe, custom 2.5" catback w/ Hooker Header's Maxium Flows dumped (BBK chrome unequal shorties, 75mm TB and EGR, and ported Explorer intake in the box)
It is for sale! PM me.

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Re: Electric Fan/3G Alternator Conversion

Postby CDW6212R » Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:46 pm

The later 4.6 engine isn't what it comes from, that second link won't work. Look at the pictures in Art's thread, note that the alternator has only two mounting holes. One is a long hole for the long bolt that it pivots on. The other one is on the other side, just a tab, which has to be cut down thinner.

The key is the distance between the two holes, there's just the one 3G model that has that dimension. It stands out easily when you see it, generally, when it's in front of you. You might call DB and ask them directly about the 94/95 Continental alternators, or a 3.8 Taurus of those years. If they pull one out and confirm the description matches our large 100amp 1G, then you've found it. Meaning they can go get a 1G off the shelf, and find the right 3G unit that we are talking about. If you go that route with a new alternator, be sure to be able to describe to them where we need the terminals lined up compared to the tab with the bolt in it. Look at the pictures when you talk with them. You want it "clocked" right so when you get it, all you need to do is cut down the mounting ear, and rewire the regulator etc.
Don
1991 Red Special Edition, my 2nd SE, dead paint, DWS 255/45/17's on 95 Cobra wheels, and soon; DVD/Navi/backup camera, OBDII and the 347, before custom paint.
98 Mountaineer with Continental DWS 255/55/18's, big sway bars, custom brakes. Soon to be A4WD with XP8 bumpers and wing.

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Re: Electric Fan/3G Alternator Conversion

Postby Redlyr » Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:51 pm

Okay. Thanks.

As a related question, is the front of a Mark VII 5.0 the same as a Fox Mustang 5.0?
If so, I know for a fact that these will work:
94-95 GT Mustang
94-04 V6 Mustang
94-97 3.8L Thunderbird **NON-S/C**
-Sean
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1990 Clear Crystal Blue Frost Mark VII LSC 5.0 Auto "Detroit Dinosaur"- 96k miles. T5 swap w/CenterForce clutch and 50Resto STS, Full coil conversion w/KYB GR-2/Gas-A-Just struts/shocks, 225/60R16 Fuzion ZRi tires, air silencer delete, BBK O/R H-pipe, custom 2.5" catback w/ Hooker Header's Maxium Flows dumped (BBK chrome unequal shorties, 75mm TB and EGR, and ported Explorer intake in the box)
It is for sale! PM me.

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Re: Electric Fan/3G Alternator Conversion

Postby CDW6212R » Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:59 pm

No, see the Mark VII uses a larger bracket for the larger alternator. The wiring isn't the same either as the Mustangs. So you could swap the brackets, and then figure out what wiring changes are needed for that alternator. That might be an easier conversion, but no one's looked into the wiring differences of the Mustang alternator. You might look into that and see what it would take.

I'm eventually going to swap to an Explorer 302 system, the whole wiring, PCM, and front dress. That will get me the 4G alternator that is common for those, but the AC compressor will be a custom line issue to work out. You can do things many ways, but which way is more feasible. Night Sean,
Don
1991 Red Special Edition, my 2nd SE, dead paint, DWS 255/45/17's on 95 Cobra wheels, and soon; DVD/Navi/backup camera, OBDII and the 347, before custom paint.
98 Mountaineer with Continental DWS 255/55/18's, big sway bars, custom brakes. Soon to be A4WD with XP8 bumpers and wing.

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Re: Electric Fan/3G Alternator Conversion

Postby Redlyr » Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:10 pm

Thanks again CDW. You are always a great help.

I might pick up the 94-95 GT 3G and see what I can do with it. If I can't make it work I know several guys with Foxes that would buy it off me.
-Sean
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1990 Clear Crystal Blue Frost Mark VII LSC 5.0 Auto "Detroit Dinosaur"- 96k miles. T5 swap w/CenterForce clutch and 50Resto STS, Full coil conversion w/KYB GR-2/Gas-A-Just struts/shocks, 225/60R16 Fuzion ZRi tires, air silencer delete, BBK O/R H-pipe, custom 2.5" catback w/ Hooker Header's Maxium Flows dumped (BBK chrome unequal shorties, 75mm TB and EGR, and ported Explorer intake in the box)
It is for sale! PM me.

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Re: Electric Fan/3G Alternator Conversion

Postby CDW6212R » Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:13 pm

The alternator shops can figure out the wiring. But some places like you might call wouldn't be as inclined to help. I'd ask them though, the shop I used to go to knew very well how to rewire any alternator/regulator.

You would have to have the Mustang alternator bracket to have a chance to use those alternators. The tensioner is the same.
Don
1991 Red Special Edition, my 2nd SE, dead paint, DWS 255/45/17's on 95 Cobra wheels, and soon; DVD/Navi/backup camera, OBDII and the 347, before custom paint.
98 Mountaineer with Continental DWS 255/55/18's, big sway bars, custom brakes. Soon to be A4WD with XP8 bumpers and wing.

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Re: Electric Fan/3G Alternator Conversion

Postby Redlyr » Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:06 pm

My dad knows a guy who does a lot of car electrical work. Supposedly he can rebuild the OEM 1G alternator to put out the low RPM amps of a 3G. That way I can just unbolt, have it done over a day, and bolt it back in the next. He said it would be $75-100 to get it done. I think I might get some underdrive pulleys as well since I will have the belt off and be tearing off the mechanical fan.
Any particular brand you guys like? I was thinking about just getting the cheap Summit Racing powder coated steel ones.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-329600/
They have anodized aluminum ones for $20 more. Not sure if it worth the extra or not. I don't think there would be enough rotational mass difference to make a noticable change in parasitic loss. Any thoughts? I mean, if the aluminum ones are even worth 0.5mpg more over the steel ones then I would go for it. With gas prices the way they are it would pay for itself in about a month. :lol:

Edit: After some searching, it seems like the aluminum pulleys have a nasty habit of wearing thin and then grenading... :oops: Steel it is.
-Sean
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1990 Clear Crystal Blue Frost Mark VII LSC 5.0 Auto "Detroit Dinosaur"- 96k miles. T5 swap w/CenterForce clutch and 50Resto STS, Full coil conversion w/KYB GR-2/Gas-A-Just struts/shocks, 225/60R16 Fuzion ZRi tires, air silencer delete, BBK O/R H-pipe, custom 2.5" catback w/ Hooker Header's Maxium Flows dumped (BBK chrome unequal shorties, 75mm TB and EGR, and ported Explorer intake in the box)
It is for sale! PM me.

2012 Ingot Silver Metallic Ford Fiesta S 1.6L Ti-VCT 5-Speed- 6k miles
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Re: Electric Fan/3G Alternator Conversion

Postby metalman615 » Sun Apr 15, 2012 3:57 pm

I just picked up a Lincoln mark 7 for 400 bucks and the alternator is junk so im doing the 3g swap right off the bat. i did some searching and found a 88 mustang alternator bracket kicking around and it fit up nice to the mark then went down to auto zone and got a 95 mustang gt 5.0 130 amp alternator fits the bracket i just got to grind out clearence in the bracket for one of the alternators case bolts. pulleys the same size and now if the alt craps out pick up a new one and bolt it in no machining and grinding. im also putting in the smog delete while im there. also when i bought the alternator it had a wiring diagram with it sowing how to wire with or with out indicator lamp.

hopefully ill have it all completed by the end of the week
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Re: Electric Fan/3G Alternator Conversion

Postby artbaileyjr » Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:03 am

The 3G is a nice electrical upgrade. Nice buy on the car. 8-)

Post some pics in "The Welcome Wagon" and introduce yourself, when you get a chance.

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Re: Electric Fan/3G Alternator Conversion

Postby CDW6212R » Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:03 pm

Welcome, and that's a good different swap.
Don
1991 Red Special Edition, my 2nd SE, dead paint, DWS 255/45/17's on 95 Cobra wheels, and soon; DVD/Navi/backup camera, OBDII and the 347, before custom paint.
98 Mountaineer with Continental DWS 255/55/18's, big sway bars, custom brakes. Soon to be A4WD with XP8 bumpers and wing.

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Re: Electric Fan/3G Alternator Conversion

Postby Redlyr » Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:25 pm

Welcome and good info there.

I will be doing a 3G swap this summer if all goes well. There is going to be a lot of new parts going into the Mark VII in the next four months. A GT40 top end, electric fan/3G, T5 swap, and rear gears. Should have a 240rwhp car by August. Fingers crossed that my wallet will survive!
-Sean
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1990 Clear Crystal Blue Frost Mark VII LSC 5.0 Auto "Detroit Dinosaur"- 96k miles. T5 swap w/CenterForce clutch and 50Resto STS, Full coil conversion w/KYB GR-2/Gas-A-Just struts/shocks, 225/60R16 Fuzion ZRi tires, air silencer delete, BBK O/R H-pipe, custom 2.5" catback w/ Hooker Header's Maxium Flows dumped (BBK chrome unequal shorties, 75mm TB and EGR, and ported Explorer intake in the box)
It is for sale! PM me.

2012 Ingot Silver Metallic Ford Fiesta S 1.6L Ti-VCT 5-Speed- 6k miles
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Re: Electric Fan/3G Alternator Conversion

Postby TheMacster » Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:50 am

contours and cougars have dual electric fans and if I am not mistaken flow more cfm, they fit very nicely on fox radiators so I would assume that they will on our Marks. I got mine of a cougar for 50 bucks.

here a link with pics, helped me out

http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/ ... st.797820/
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Re: Electric Fan/3G Alternator Conversion

Postby Ajl0429 » Sat Oct 07, 2017 5:13 pm

I accidentally bought a 86-93 mustang 130amp alternator from lmr thinking it would fit for my 92 bb. I figured out a bracket to make up the distance but I can't figure out the wiring has anyone got one of the mustang alt to work for there mark.
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Re: Electric Fan/3G Alternator Conversion

Postby CDW6212R » Sat Oct 07, 2017 9:55 pm

Ajl0429 wrote:I accidentally bought a 86-93 mustang 130amp alternator from lmr thinking it would fit for my 92 bb. I figured out a bracket to make up the distance but I can't figure out the wiring has anyone got one of the mustang alt to work for there mark.


I'd take it to any local alternator shop. They should easily be able to tell you what you need to use that alternator. It will come down to the regulator setup, it should be the same as for the Fox Mustang if that's what it's for.
Don
1991 Red Special Edition, my 2nd SE, dead paint, DWS 255/45/17's on 95 Cobra wheels, and soon; DVD/Navi/backup camera, OBDII and the 347, before custom paint.
98 Mountaineer with Continental DWS 255/55/18's, big sway bars, custom brakes. Soon to be A4WD with XP8 bumpers and wing.

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