Rear drivetrain parts

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Rear drivetrain parts

Postby Lord Vader » Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:27 pm

I'm looking for right and left rear axle shafts, caliper brackets, calipers, brake lines and rotors. I may be open to just buying the entire rear end if you prefer. I'm located in Berrien County, Michigan. I'd be willing to pay shipping or drive up to 100 miles if the deal is good enough.

If you prefer to text, my number (in HEX) is 82A95055. Just google hex to decimal converter to get the number. Thanks!
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Re: Rear drivetrain parts

Postby CDW6212R » Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:07 pm

Welcome, and what model is that for? The 84-89 brakes are different in the rear(calipers/brackets), it changed during the 1990 model I believe. the early model calipers are more robust, the later ones are fragile to the slider pins getting dirty(boots broken), which causes wear and uneven pad wear.
Don
1991 Red Special Edition, my 2nd SE, dead paint, DWS 255/45/17's on 95 Cobra wheels, and soon; DVD/Navi/backup camera, OBDII and the 347, before custom paint.
98 Mountaineer with Continental DWS 255/55/18's, big sway bars, custom brakes. Soon to be A4WD with XP8 bumpers and wing.

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Re: Rear drivetrain parts

Postby Lord Vader » Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:22 pm

Thanks for the reply. I will need the earlier ones. I have a 91 Mustang, and I'm trying to give it a 5 lug/4 disk setup. As I understand it, these parts are shared among the Mark VII, the SVO Mustang, and the Saleen Mustangs of the same era. Maybe others, but I don't know about that. Most likely, either setup will work, but if I do this I'd rather use the better parts...
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Re: Rear drivetrain parts

Postby CDW6212R » Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:41 pm

Are you trying to just convert to disc brakes and 5 lugs, or is a proportioning valve part of your plans? I ask because most Mustangs with swapped brake parts end up with external proportioning valves, to correct for imbalances between the brakes chosen, and the CV(combination valve) under the master cylinder.

The Mark VII uses larger calipers than the Mustangs. The fronts are a fairly good match for the Mustangs, but the rears are also bigger than the 94+ disc brake Mustangs. That means the Mustang combination valve(has PV inside it), ends up giving you more rear brake bias than ideal, thus the added later external PV.

The OEM 94-01 Mustangs have rear calipers with around 1.5" pistons in them, maybe it was 1.6"(I forgot). The Mark VII's have 1.8" pistons.

What I'm hinting at is that maybe the 94-98 Mustang rear brakes may be a better match and allow the SN95 combination valve to give you a good balance front to back. That's my guess from seeing a lot of brake swap and upgrade threads, mostly about Mustangs.

I'm going to install the SN95 front spindles and brakes on my car soon. When I get to the rear brakes, I'm hoping to use 2003-2010 Crown Vic brakes, if the axle offset is the same. Those have 1.9" rear pistons, and the larger vented rotors similar to the Cobras. The back brakes don't need to be special, just a good match for the fronts.
Don
1991 Red Special Edition, my 2nd SE, dead paint, DWS 255/45/17's on 95 Cobra wheels, and soon; DVD/Navi/backup camera, OBDII and the 347, before custom paint.
98 Mountaineer with Continental DWS 255/55/18's, big sway bars, custom brakes. Soon to be A4WD with XP8 bumpers and wing.

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Re: Rear drivetrain parts

Postby Lord Vader » Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:45 pm

Thanks for the valuable input.

I plan on installing an adjustable PV. You are correct though, I've done this swap before and without any compensation for the bias, the car would quickly lose control if you stood on them. Lesson learned on that one!

Really, my driving factor here is that I scored a set of ultra rare 1991 Saleen wheels, with staggered offset. This dictates the length of the axle shafts, and I honestly just assumed I could use the Mark VII brakes. Finding genuine Saleen parts from that era has been impossible. I've only seen these wheels for sale once, and those are what I bought. They are also the only Saleen wheels that no one makes replicas of.

I will do some more research to see what specs are on the Saleen/SVO, since I know the Mark VII calipers were designed for a much heavier car.

Any further input on this is welcome! I could just save up and buy off the shelf, but where's the fun and sense of accomplishment in that?
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Re: Rear drivetrain parts

Postby CDW6212R » Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:11 pm

Gotcha. The SN95(95-98) rear brakes and axles are almost the exact same length as the Mark VII axles, and the rearend housings are also the same. So I would go after those 95-98 Mustang rear axles and brakes, the Cobra rotor/bracket/caliper too. Those rotors are 11.6" and vented, the rear caliper pistons are 1.5" for any 94-04 from what I read.

I just received the Crown Vic rotors today, which are also that 11.6" size. If I knew for sure that the axle offset matched the Mark VII and Mustang, I'd suggest those brakes instead of the Cobra brakes(because you mentioned using a PV anyway).

So you might more easily buy just new 94-98 Mustang axles, and the CV brakes from JY, if the axle offset matched. The distance from the axle housing to the axle hub needs to match, to be able to swap those brakes between models.

I'm aiming the CV rear brakes at my 99 Explorer right now, but I hope to use them on my Mark VII later. If I run across the CV brackets soon, I'll test fit them to measure that axle offset. I wouldn't just buy them and assume they'll fit your Mustang with another axle etc.
Don
1991 Red Special Edition, my 2nd SE, dead paint, DWS 255/45/17's on 95 Cobra wheels, and soon; DVD/Navi/backup camera, OBDII and the 347, before custom paint.
98 Mountaineer with Continental DWS 255/55/18's, big sway bars, custom brakes. Soon to be A4WD with XP8 bumpers and wing.

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Re: Rear drivetrain parts

Postby Lord Vader » Sat Apr 22, 2017 11:46 pm

The 8.8 housings are all the same for our cars, even the Mustangs that used the 7.5 ring gear. Fox axle length is 29.25" SVO, Saleen, and Mark VII use 30.5" SN95 axle shafts are 30".

Last time I did this swap, I lucked out and got axles and brakes from an SVO. That's also very rare. Since the axle tube flanges are all the same bolt pattern, all one needs to do is match the axle shaft length to the brake setup. If they both come from the same car, then they will work.

The 1/2" shorter length of the SN95 matters to me, even though they would be easier. I'm one of those people that doesn't play with horse shoes or hand grenades. I'm more of a sharp shooter, lol.
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Re: Rear drivetrain parts

Postby CDW6212R » Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:49 am

I thought that the axle difference was within 1/4" for the SN95/Mark VII's. A half inch is noticeable for wheel/tire fitment. I found special forged 17x9's last year for my SUV, and I need to make them work. Even with the almost ideal offset(16mm versus about 24mm), I'm pondering a suspension swap in the back, which would make fitting the wheels harder.

How sure are you about the axle lengths? I ask because the brakes might be possible to mount slightly in or out, depending on how much is needed. I'm a pack rat so I actually have almost all of those vehicles, and brakes, but it's all assembled on the cars(tough to go measure).
Don
1991 Red Special Edition, my 2nd SE, dead paint, DWS 255/45/17's on 95 Cobra wheels, and soon; DVD/Navi/backup camera, OBDII and the 347, before custom paint.
98 Mountaineer with Continental DWS 255/55/18's, big sway bars, custom brakes. Soon to be A4WD with XP8 bumpers and wing.

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Re: Rear drivetrain parts

Postby Lord Vader » Sun Apr 23, 2017 10:32 am

Well, I haven't measure them myself personally. But I did look at several articles for it (I know how misleading the Internet is these days). One guy even broke them down to 1/100 inch. According to him, they are all a tad short of the nominal length. For instance, the 30" axles are actually 29.91". I guess if that's true, it's not really surprising. Kinda like how a 2x4 is actually 1.5x3.5. I guess.

I suppose i may be able to email drivetrain.com an ask. If anyone outside of ford specific parts would know, they would...
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Re: Rear drivetrain parts

Postby LLFordman » Sun Apr 23, 2017 10:42 am

Just use a pair of "drivers' side" Ford Ranger axles (from a 9" drum truck) with your mark vii rotors and caliper brackets. The caliper bracket gets rotated 180 and then swapped from one side of the car to the other, landing on the inboard side of the caliper bracket to axle mounting plate. (Say that two times fast.) Torque the caliper bracket bolts in place with loctite, add a couple tack welds for good measure and grind off the majority of the heads of the bolts. The rotor can still be removed without taking off the bracket. This will net you an almost exact track width as the original 4-lug drum setup. I did this on my '93 convertible and it looked like factory with 17x8 Bullits on it. There used to be a more in depth write up of this process on the web somewhere years ago but those pages are gone. I can probably dig back in my memory for more info if you need it.

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Re: Rear drivetrain parts

Postby Lord Vader » Sun Apr 23, 2017 11:39 am

Thank you. I have looked at that swap also, but it will not give me the length I want, which is 1.5" longer on each side, to take up the offset required by the staggered fitment Saleen wheels.

This length is a deal breaker. If I can't make it with axles and brakes that fit right, I will just have to hold out for some genuine Saleen parts. Last time I did this exact same swap, I used the exact same wheels with SVO axles and brakes. Since the Mark VII axles and housing are supposed to be the same, that is what I'm trying to use this time.

In fact, that is what I'm going to do. Buy the Mark VII stuff, and an adjustable PV. If it works, great. If not, I will have learned something.
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Re: Rear drivetrain parts

Postby LLFordman » Mon Apr 24, 2017 11:48 am

What were the wheels originally on? 1.5" each side sounds like an awful lot. The difference for a SVO/MarkVII axle is 1.5" wider in total as compared to a stock fox rear end.
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Re: Rear drivetrain parts

Postby Lord Vader » Mon Apr 24, 2017 1:11 pm

LLFordman wrote:What were the wheels originally on? 1.5" each side sounds like an awful lot. The difference for a SVO/MarkVII axle is 1.5" wider in total as compared to a stock fox rear end.


My wheels came from a 1991 Saleen. Are you sure your info is correct? Part number searches suggest otherwise. Here is a summary of the info I have:

From Saleen Club Of America:

-Fitment for 87-93 cars is very tricky, due to the brake system used. Non-Saleen front wheels tend to interfere with the center cap, while the Saleen rear was very wide and used high offset rear wheels.
-The 5-spoke was phased-in in 1989, and used thru 1991. The fronts are 16x7 with 4-3/8" backspace (10mm offset), while the rears have 5-3/4" backspacing (32mm offset).


From LMR, American Muscle, and an article on allfordmustangs.com on 87-93 wheels:

1985-1993 Mustang GT: 15-16" diameters, 4"x108mm bolt pattern, 1/2"x20mm stud size, 63.4 center bore, 15-25mm (M) offset.

So, if a stock 87-93 Fox Body has 29.25" axles and a stock wheel offset of +25mm (+0.98"), and a 87-93 Saleen has an offset of +32mm (+1.26"), then it would make sense that the Saleen axles would be 1.26" longer per side, which comes out to 30.51" Right on the money.

From foureyedpride.com: http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread. ... Rear-Axles

-All 7.5 and 8.8 housings from 78 to 98 are the same width (this may or may not include the few 6.75s). They all also came with the same 28 spline pattern on the carriers. This means that any axle shaft can in theory be used in any housing assuming the correct brake hardware for the shaft is also used.
-The 8.8 axle was released in '83 and made its way into the fox platform in '86.

Factory Mustang and other fox body cars:
-Housing width is 59.25" with zero center section offset. Axle shaft length is 29.25"
-087-88 Turbo Coupe and 93 Cobra 8.8" axles are basically the same with 30" (3/4" longer) axle shafts meaning, they are 1.5" wider overall. brakes are 10" 4 lug vented rotors.
-87-92 Lincoln Mark VII 8.8 axles are 30.5" (1.25" longer) per side, meaning total width is 2.5" wider. brakes are 10.5" 5 lug vented rotors. SVO and 87-93 Saleen shared these axle shafts.
-99-04 SN95 housings are 3/4" longer per side, and the axles are 1.5" longer per side but they continue to share the 94-98 rear brakes.

-Fox axles are 29.16" long.
-1994-98 axles are 29.91" long.
-1999-2004 axles are 30.63" long.
-SVO/Lincoln axles are 30.41" long.


I have tried to verify this as thoroughly as possible looking at replacement parts from different sources including drivetrain.com, RockAuto, AutoZone, O'Reilly's, Summit Racing, Jegs, Lane Automotive, LMR and others. The information above seems to be spot on.

For example, From LMR:
79-93 Mustangs - 29 3/16" long rear axle.
94-98 Mustangs - 29 31/32" long rear axle.
99-04 Mustangs - 30 11/16" long rear axle.


Stock Mark VII wheels were 15" in these years, so there is no reason they wouldn't fit behind my 16" wheels.

Thanks for making me put all this together in one place. I have now answered my own question. Now I just need to buy the parts. :)
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Re: Rear drivetrain parts

Postby Lord Vader » Mon Apr 24, 2017 1:45 pm

So, does anyone know where I can score some Mark VII axles and brakes?

This is not an overnight project, but I'm doing it in chunks. I want to do all the rear axle stuff all at once: My motor will be a 408W, with a 6 speed, so I'm thinking 3.55 or maybe even 3.27 gears because I'll have plenty of torque to turn them, a Torsen LSD, a girdle cover for the diff, and 5 lug disk brake axles to go with my wheels. I'm not a racer, I just want a fun pleasure car. I may take it to the nearest quarter mile and see what it does...
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Re: Rear drivetrain parts

Postby 2manymarks » Mon Apr 24, 2017 2:40 pm

Lord Vader wrote:So, does anyone know where I can score some Mark VII axles and brakes?

This is not an overnight project, but I'm doing it in chunks. I want to do all the rear axle stuff all at once: My motor will be a 408W, with a 6 speed, so I'm thinking 3.55 or maybe even 3.27 gears because I'll have plenty of torque to turn them, a Torsen LSD, a girdle cover for the diff, and 5 lug disk brake axles to go with my wheels. I'm not a racer, I just want a fun pleasure car. I may take it to the nearest quarter mile and see what it does...



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Re: Rear drivetrain parts

Postby LLFordman » Mon Apr 24, 2017 2:41 pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by calabschultz View Post
I was thinking about doing an axle swap with a ranger axle or a 5 lug foxbody swap because from what I understand the Saleen's come with a wider rear axle than a normal foxbody.
Saleen used the 1984-86 Mustang SVO rear axle (a Lincoln item). These vehicles had a wider wheel base both front and rear. Since Saleen only used the rear components, it stretched the rear track.

Sounds like the Mark VII rear axle will get you where you need to be. Might be a good idea to get some Currie/Strange 31 spline axles while your at it with the torque your going to throw at it.

I have a brand new 408w for my '91 LSC that will be feed with an 88mm turbo. I'm going with 33 spline gun drilled axles...
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1991 Mark VII LSC Titanium Frost
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2001 Explorer Limited 5.0 Spruce Green


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Re: Rear drivetrain parts

Postby CDW6212R » Mon Apr 24, 2017 4:12 pm

I agree with Julian, move to a 31 spline axle and skip the 28's and diff. Get a True Trac from Detroit, I just bought one for $490-$50 rebate. You should be able to buy axles from one of the big brands in your choice of lengths/splines etc. The length would be the magic thing, and you are working on that now.

I also think the total width change is about 1.5", I recall reading it being about 3/4" for each side.
Don
1991 Red Special Edition, my 2nd SE, dead paint, DWS 255/45/17's on 95 Cobra wheels, and soon; DVD/Navi/backup camera, OBDII and the 347, before custom paint.
98 Mountaineer with Continental DWS 255/55/18's, big sway bars, custom brakes. Soon to be A4WD with XP8 bumpers and wing.

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Re: Rear drivetrain parts

Postby Lord Vader » Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:48 pm

Wow thanks everyone!

I'm aiming for a reliable 500hp/500tq. Do you really think I need the beef back there? I'm really trying to recycle as much as possible-just because 1) budget and 2) to prove a decent ride can be built this way. Should I back off on the power? Remember, I'm talking some dyno tuning, and maybe a couple test runs, on street tires. I don't street race either, but I'll prob open it up from time to time on an empty road.
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Re: Rear drivetrain parts

Postby CDW6212R » Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:17 am

For that 500hp level I'd want 31 spline axles, it'd likely all survive at that, but the weak links are the axles and axle tubes at the chunk.

I'm going to be below 400hp with my NA 347, so I may or may not get the 31 splines. My SUV is going to be over 500hp though, and if I keep the 8.8 I might take the time to pull it and have the tubes welded. Mine's to be a DD and traveling vehicle though, break downs away from home are big things to avoid.
Don
1991 Red Special Edition, my 2nd SE, dead paint, DWS 255/45/17's on 95 Cobra wheels, and soon; DVD/Navi/backup camera, OBDII and the 347, before custom paint.
98 Mountaineer with Continental DWS 255/55/18's, big sway bars, custom brakes. Soon to be A4WD with XP8 bumpers and wing.

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