1990 LSC SE Sunroof (Moonroof) Switch

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1990 LSC SE Sunroof (Moonroof) Switch

Postby condor655 » Sat Jul 01, 2017 7:00 pm

I know this is a first world problem and people are being slaughtered all over the world but what a bummer to go to the local microbrewery,
fill up a growler of lager, then get back in your car and the sunroof switch is non-responsive, loose and obviously broken.
Guess the good news is that it failed in the closed position that I just put it in when parking the car!
Took it apart today, and yes, the toggle button that operates the switch blew apart at both attachment points.
Anybody have any idea what my options are here?
I guess I start with => Anybody have the toggle button? If not a switch assembly? If not a whole overhead assembly?
Related => How the heck does this switch work? The button mounts in squares on the sides of the switch, but I'll
be damned if I can figure it out?
I'll post pictures of what I have.
Thanks.
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Re: 1990 LSC SE Sunroof (Moonroof) Switch

Postby condor655 » Sun Jul 02, 2017 10:54 pm

This is a slideshow of the removed Overhead Console and disassembly to get to the sunroof switch
for anyone interested in what the parts look like.
http://s1251.photobucket.com/user/condo ... %20Console
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Re: 1990 LSC SE Sunroof (Moonroof) Switch

Postby 2manymarks » Mon Jul 03, 2017 11:16 am

I Wasn't able to get the photobucket link to work. This probably isn't the answere you want, but maybe it will work. FWIW- There are similar toggle switches for door locks and power windows and maybe worth a try until a proper replacement can be found.
As of July2017, 11 Mark[*] VII's, 3 licensed for the road:
1989 LSC Midnight/Current Red c/c (9G) mostly stock 99k.
1989 LSC Midnight/Current Red c/c (9G) 124k, stock, needs air suspension & bodywork.
1989 Light Titanium c/c (11) Bill Blass - stock. miles unk
1989 LSC Medium Sandalwood (62) Mass air+ 111k FOR SALE $900.
1986 BB (8T) stock 125k (wife'sDD)
1987 BB (4L) stock (miles unk)
1987 Base Model White (9L) 107k (2.73rear)
1984 Turbo Diesel Base model, Platinum (1Q), 131k+ FOR SALE $1000.
Parts cars: 88 LSC, 89 BB, 90 LSC - TLZ 5spd (complete conversion w/extras 4SALE)
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Re: 1990 LSC SE Sunroof (Moonroof) Switch

Postby CDW6212R » Mon Jul 03, 2017 11:34 am

Photobucket is ransoming it's customers $399 a year for the privilege of remaining a member/customer. Sad to say, but black list them, I have.

That switch is best saved from another Mark VII, contact T Curry about that.
Don
1991 Red Special Edition, my 2nd SE, dead paint, DWS 255/45/17's on 95 Cobra wheels, and soon; DVD/Navi/backup camera, OBDII and the 347, before custom paint.
98 Mountaineer with Continental DWS 255/55/18's, big sway bars, custom brakes. Soon to be A4WD with XP8 bumpers and wing.

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Re: 1990 LSC SE Sunroof (Moonroof) Switch

Postby condor655 » Mon Jul 03, 2017 11:39 am

I have some window switches and looked at them yesterday.
This is a completely different switch and unique.
I just thought about it - this switch does open, close & vent mode.
Looking at the switch, playing with it, etc & have no idea how it works.
The switch itself doesnt have moving parts except if the squares on the
side where the toggle button mounts move? They dont seem to move?
Maybe it's some type of Hall effect switch?
Baffling!
Anyone know of parts car with factory sunroof?
Here is a google photos slideshow of the parts => https://goo.gl/photos/DQtrzcDXiHHp28FM8
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Re: 1990 LSC SE Sunroof (Moonroof) Switch

Postby condor655 » Mon Jul 03, 2017 12:00 pm

CDW6212R wrote:Photobucket is ransoming it's customers $399 a year for the privilege of remaining a member/customer. Sad to say, but black list them, I have.

That switch is best saved from another Mark VII, contact T Curry about that.


Yeah, guess I was just using them from a legacy standpoint - found out they dont work well in firefox.
Just went to google photos and made a shared folder there in 2 minutes.
I had found T Curry on the web and emailed yesterday.
He's probably off for holiday weekend. Thanks!
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Re: 1990 LSC SE Sunroof (Moonroof) Switch

Postby CDW6212R » Mon Jul 03, 2017 1:24 pm

I'll bet Tim can help you, that will be the easiest repair. I think the switch internally is very much like a window switch, two pairs of delicate tiny contacts. Those I would call the weakest links, they are easy to damage if you get into the guts of a switch. So replacing the switch because the outer button breaks is a good idea. I have a friend who had a similar problem with his Mark VIII, and he ended up epoxying it back together. His only broke off one corner of one side, so he was lucky to find the tiny piece, and glue it back together. We'll see if it holds, I would be hunting a new switch, given the age of these cars.
Don
1991 Red Special Edition, my 2nd SE, dead paint, DWS 255/45/17's on 95 Cobra wheels, and soon; DVD/Navi/backup camera, OBDII and the 347, before custom paint.
98 Mountaineer with Continental DWS 255/55/18's, big sway bars, custom brakes. Soon to be A4WD with XP8 bumpers and wing.

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Re: 1990 LSC SE Sunroof (Moonroof) Switch

Postby condor655 » Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:17 pm

CDW6212R wrote:I'll bet Tim can help you, that will be the easiest repair. I think the switch internally is very much like a window switch, two pairs of delicate tiny contacts. Those I would call the weakest links, they are easy to damage if you get into the guts of a switch. So replacing the switch because the outer button breaks is a good idea. I have a friend who had a similar problem with his Mark VIII, and he ended up epoxying it back together. His only broke off one corner of one side, so he was lucky to find the tiny piece, and glue it back together. We'll see if it holds, I would be hunting a new switch, given the age of these cars.


Just got home and was playing with switch. Pretty sure you are right about tiny contacts.
Looks like the squares on the side of the switch do move when you press the toggle to make contact.
I super-glued the toggle button back together yesterday.
Not sure if it will blow apart when I attempt to snap back into place.
May try tomorrow. I'll let you know how I make out.
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Re: 1990 LSC SE Sunroof (Moonroof) Switch

Postby CDW6212R » Tue Jul 04, 2017 11:41 pm

It may hold if you got all of the pieces back together closely, and the glue is not in the space needed at the connection, pivots etc.
Don
1991 Red Special Edition, my 2nd SE, dead paint, DWS 255/45/17's on 95 Cobra wheels, and soon; DVD/Navi/backup camera, OBDII and the 347, before custom paint.
98 Mountaineer with Continental DWS 255/55/18's, big sway bars, custom brakes. Soon to be A4WD with XP8 bumpers and wing.

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Re: 1990 LSC SE Sunroof (Moonroof) Switch

Postby condor655 » Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:59 pm

Well, the good news is the repair worked!
You never know when using superglue.
Sometime the superglue just sits on the piece you are gluing back together and other times there seems
to be a chemical reaction where the material melts and bonds.
In this case on this plastic toggle button it melted and bonded. I let it sit for a few days to fully cure.
I checked the mounting opening with a digital caliper and there seemed to be a .0005 to .001 clearance for
the switch tabs. There was some glue residue that made the opening too small so I used a small dremel steel
burr to very gently clean it out and make it square. When I snapped the toggle button back on the switch it fit
well and did snap into place. It looked like there may have been one failure point on the very bottom of the
toggle button in the thin bottom portion where it may have cracked - hard to tell - so I put a drop of superglue
there and left it overnight. It definitely operates the switch properly after assembly. Got everything back in
the car and everything works fine - I can open my sunroof again!

I think you could repair this switch, as a last resort type of repair, by using epoxy to actually bond the switch
tabs to the toggle in the square area that snaps on. I was considering doing this but it seemed to operate fine
after my repair and I can just remember to be gentle with it when operating the sunroof.

oldschool1 may want to put a pinned article for new owners of cars with factory sunroofs to be gentle with this switch.
Otherwise they'll end up being a barbarian like me and smashing it into pieces when they ram it to open the sunroof NOW! LOL
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Re: 1990 LSC SE Sunroof (Moonroof) Switch

Postby condor655 » Sun Jul 09, 2017 11:07 pm

As part of the repair, while I had the entire overhead console out, I decided to change out the
four bulbs that are housed in the top of the assembly.

Bought them from Bulb America <bulbamerica.com>
They are running a summer discount special right now.

2-PK SYLVANIA 194 Long Life Automotive Light Bulb - 1.49
2x $1.49 each
Discounts : $-0.20 USD
Subtotal : $2.78 USD
Tax : $0.00 USD
Shipping : $3.75 USD
Total : $6.53 USD => $1.63 ea delivered!
Was best deal I could find compared to local auto stores & even Ebay!
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Re: 1990 LSC SE Sunroof (Moonroof) Switch

Postby CDW6212R » Mon Jul 10, 2017 4:14 pm

Excellent repair, I'm glad that it worked.
Don
1991 Red Special Edition, my 2nd SE, dead paint, DWS 255/45/17's on 95 Cobra wheels, and soon; DVD/Navi/backup camera, OBDII and the 347, before custom paint.
98 Mountaineer with Continental DWS 255/55/18's, big sway bars, custom brakes. Soon to be A4WD with XP8 bumpers and wing.

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Re: 1990 LSC SE Sunroof (Moonroof) Switch

Postby WHITEOXLSC » Tue Jul 11, 2017 3:19 pm

condor655 wrote:As part of the repair, while I had the entire overhead console out, I decided to change out the
four bulbs that are housed in the top of the assembly.

Bought them from Bulb America <bulbamerica.com>
They are running a summer discount special right now.



While you were at it you should have checked your board for capacitor leaking. If yours has not been recapped and it is working, now is a good time to do it. If left alone the caps will leak and destroy the board to the point (in many cases) beyond repair. The caps are cheap and easy to replace, however the circuit board is not. Chances are that your board is on the verge of destroying itself, if it still has the original caps installed..... Of course this is all moot if your board has already been reworked :D
Bruce
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Re: 1990 LSC SE Sunroof (Moonroof) Switch

Postby condor655 » Tue Jul 11, 2017 3:23 pm

Wish you would have told me while I had the unit out. At this point it's all back in and working.
Will have to be put on the back burner until maybe winter time.
Is this a repair that Paul Protos might do?
I'd trust his skills way over mine in that area!
Thanks!
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Re: 1990 LSC SE Sunroof (Moonroof) Switch

Postby beek0 » Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:42 pm

Just looked and classiquecars.com has new moonroof switchs for the Mark VII. Look in the electrical section.
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Re: 1990 LSC SE Sunroof (Moonroof) Switch

Postby condor655 » Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:49 pm

beek0 wrote:Just looked and classiquecars.com has new moonroof switchs for the Mark VII. Look in the electrical section.

Yeah, they have Town Car & Mark VIII for $100+ and call for Mark VII availability.
Best course is to BABY that switch!
Thanks!
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Re: 1990 LSC SE Sunroof (Moonroof) Switch

Postby oldschool1 » Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:29 pm

condor655 wrote:Well, the good news is the repair worked!
You never know when using superglue.
...


This is AWESOME news!
Congratulations!
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Re: 1990 LSC SE Sunroof (Moonroof) Switch

Postby oldschool1 » Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:38 pm

condor655 wrote:As part of the repair, while I had the entire overhead console out, I decided to change out the
four bulbs that are housed in the top of the assembly.

Bought them from Bulb America <bulbamerica.com>
They are running a summer discount special right now.

2-PK SYLVANIA 194 Long Life Automotive Light Bulb - 1.49
2x $1.49 each
Discounts : $-0.20 USD
Subtotal : $2.78 USD
Tax : $0.00 USD
Shipping : $3.75 USD
Total : $6.53 USD => $1.63 ea delivered!
Was best deal I could find compared to local auto stores & even Ebay!

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Re: 1990 LSC SE Sunroof (Moonroof) Switch

Postby oldschool1 » Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:43 pm

beek0 wrote:Just looked and classiquecars.com has new moonroof switchs for the Mark VII. Look in the electrical section.


Man.
I love my cars.
Thank you VERY much for the resource.

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