Timing Chain Replacement?

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Timing Chain Replacement?

Postby ricardocordoba » Sun Nov 06, 2016 9:08 am

At looking at some of the threads I'm just kind of curious at what point the timing chain should be replaced on the Mark VII. From what I have researched I believe it should be replaced at 100k miles under normal circumstances. Coming from Mopars, some of the V6s and 318s recommended changing the factory chain at 80k-100k miles since the teeth of those chains was nylon. Also, just wondering if Cloyes is the best for these 5.0 V8s or is there some other brand recommended. Not needing it changed now but, more curious than anything. Thank you in advance.
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Re: Timing Chain Replacement?

Postby CDW6212R » Sun Nov 06, 2016 9:27 am

Do it by the 150k mark, the chains are okay until then, but will be very loose by 100k. It's a full size task, so most people don't consider it until well past 100k. That 100k would be a good point, as well as the same time to do the valve springs.

Avoid Cloyes for me if you can. They used to sell an advertised "true roller" chain for a 351 Cleveland, but when I bought it, it had seamed rollers. I had to send it back and buy another brand, I used an Edelbrock which was very good. That was in 1980 I believe, I've never bought Cloyes parts since then, I hold people accountable.

There are tons of timing set choices for the 302(SBF). Lots of great choices are available, just pick one with true rollers, the small round part in the links. They should never have a seam in them, which makes it a weak part. The prices will run from maybe $30 to way over $100, I still like the $50 level for mild builds.
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Re: Timing Chain Replacement?

Postby K MANIAC » Sun Nov 06, 2016 10:22 pm

So far, I have replaced the timing chain sets in my 1989 LSC and 1989 Blass. Both cars came OEM with all metal double row chain sets. I ordered off the shelf timing chain sets from my local independent auto parts store. The replacements were also all metal double row chain sets made by Federal Mogal and cost $40 each.

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Now, let me explain why I replaced them. About a year after acquiring the LSC, the timing cover gasket failed, spewing coolant out of the passenger side of the mating surface between the timing cover and engine block. I had to remove the timing cover to replace the gasket. Once I opened up the front of the engine, I observed some slop in the chain. Not too bad considering the car had 137,000 miles on it at the time. However, since I had it apart and a replacement set was only $40 bucks, I went ahead and replaced it. In the meantime, my Blass had been sitting because of a leaking water pump. Now having the timing chain replacement experience under my belt, I decided to tackle the Blass and opened up that engine all the way to the timing case. With close to 200,000 miles on that car, the chain set was sloppier but still in better shape than any single row set I have seen with half the mileage. Replacing the timing chain sets woke up both of those engines at least enough for me to notice.

The leaking timing cover gasket seems to be a common issue as I am now observing seepage now on both my Continental and my newest LSC. So I think timing chain set and water pump replacements will be in their futures, as well.
"This car may be old, but it will still climb Kirker Pass at 110!"- quote of the original owner of my green 1964 Chrysler 300-K

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1989 Mark VII Bill Blass (Oxford White)
1989 Mark VII LSC (Pewter Metallic)
1989 Mark VII LSC (Sandstone Metallic)
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Re: Timing Chain Replacement?

Postby jud149 » Wed Nov 09, 2016 11:22 am

Replaced my timing chain and sprockets at 178k because of same coolant leak in timing cover as mentioned above. Replaced timing set along with harm. balancer and water pump, with all parts purchased OEM from American Muscle. Both sprockets and balancer parts had same stampings as my originals. P/N's were timing set, 50107; balancer, 50113; w/p 50127. This was Jan., 2012 so not sure if available today.
'91 LSC, '11 Lexus LS 460
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Re: Timing Chain Replacement?

Postby GRANADOJL » Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:32 pm

That same notorious coolant leak is why I pulled my engine and bored the block .030" over, and dumped 2000 into the engine. I was at about 185k miles when the coolant leak came around. I used Cloyes steel double roller timing chain. In my other 5.0 I have a Cloyes Timing Gear set Part number 7892. Yes it says Edelbrock, Cloyes makes the gearset for Edelbrock. I could have saved a lot of money if I would have purchased it from Cloyes directly

http://www.cjponyparts.com/edelbrock-28 ... oCxL7w_wcB
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1957 Ford F100 347 Stroker
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Re: Timing Chain Replacement?

Postby ricardocordoba » Wed Nov 16, 2016 8:36 pm

Thank you all. This is reassuring that Ford used better timing chains than what Chrysler did. In the late 80s probably early 90s they got better slightly but, the earlier "square body" Dakotas had better chains but, did not use a chain guide/tensioner. It appears the 302 does not need one since I don't see one available for the older 302/351 V8s.
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Re: Timing Chain Replacement?

Postby alchemistoxford » Fri Jun 23, 2017 10:05 pm

Thanks to every member who contributed to this thead, because after reading it earlier this year, I set about replacing the timing chain, water pump, idler pulley, tensioner and serpentine belt on my 1992 LSC - at circa 139,000 miles.

First, I researched the timing chains, and due to the complexity of the tasks involved, I invested in a full roller multi-index Ford Racing timing chain set with sprockets that I found online. Then I acquired a new Ford water pump, a balancer and idler pulley. I paid a bit more for my parts always going with the very best I could find (shopping for the best prices as a matter of course). None were really expensive considering they should last another 100,000 miles. {chainset circa $130; pump circa $85; balancer $75; etc.)

When we removed the old parts - that had been performing reliably for 95,000 miles under my ownership, we noticed circa one centimeter of slack in the original chain. We installed the new parts, and the timing chain was much tighter - virtually zero slack - as tight as you would imagine in a brand new engine.

When I turned the key to crank the engine for the first time - the difference was nothing short of dramatic. The engine delivered a massive thrust of energetic vitality that made it seem as though we had just removed about 138,000 miles (or more) from its longevity. After this procedure, we cleaned the injectors and throttle body, and the engine runs much better and noticeably cooler.
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Re: Timing Chain Replacement?

Postby robertbweltzien » Sun Jun 25, 2017 1:29 pm

I plan on doing the chainset and balancer on my '89 LSC with 190K. It will probably resolve the slightly rough idle I get at times. I will buy only Ford Motorsport or Ford Racing parts from Summit. I also have a slight timing cover coolant leak. What's great is that I only live 30 miles from their Georgia warehouse. The water pump was replaced a few years ago and it is a Ford Racing part. Unfortunately it was made in China but all the other pumps (three pumps, all US made!) from the big chain stores were wrong; they had little cast impellers with welded on vanes that caused overheating with the first one and later required head gasket replacement. The Ford pump has a (large) stamped steel impeller. I guess it doesn't matter where they are made as long as they are the right part. That being said, I will always remove the sheet metal cover on any pump I buy to make sure it has the stamped impeller, for counterclockwise rotation.

Lesson learned,
Bob
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Re: Timing Chain Replacement?

Postby oldschool1 » Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:49 am

Hear hear.
Congratulations on the repair. We could start a thread, "What is the most miles driven on a timing chain?"
I had it done on my Gray 1990 as a "Might As Well" when I cooked a transmission around 140,000 miles.

Timing Chain Set - #C3057K
Timing Cover Gasket Set - #TCS45449
Coolant Bypass Hose - #20662
Water Pump - #125-1560
Oil Pressure Switch - #8059
Radiator
Anti-Freeze Coolant

Our 1984s have a ONE YEAR ONLY water pump. It spins IN THE SAME DIRECTION as our crankshafts.
1985 - 1992 spins in THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION as our crankshafts.
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Re: Timing Chain Replacement?

Postby robertbweltzien » Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:26 pm

Now 195K on the merchant marine. Timing cover leaked badly, put in two canisters of Bar's Leaks powder. That worked. The '89 LSC also needs a gas tank, windshield, transmission, anti/lock brake fix as well as a general warming over. Can't register it here in Maryland because emissions testing goes back to 1975. Interesting and fortunate that these coolant leaks don't leak coolant into the oil pan! Still using the car for trips to Connecticut and it made it up here from Georgia with a fried OD band. Keeps on going, going,

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Re: Timing Chain Replacement?

Postby beek0 » Tue Oct 17, 2017 4:35 pm

I had an early 1984 Mark VIIthat had the plastic camshaft gear. It came apart at about 100,000 miles far from home.
If you have a 1984, might want to check it out.
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Re: Timing Chain Replacement?

Postby ricardocordoba » Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:07 pm

Thank you everyone. Beek0 since you mentioned you had an 1984 I'm wondering if it has to do with the fact that your car has the SO (Standard Output) CFI engine? I know when they went to the HO setup later on I believe the timing chain was beefed up or a minor design change in the setup.
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Re: Timing Chain Replacement?

Postby CDW6212R » Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:45 pm

Along in the mid 80's the roller cams started in the 302's. I think they stopped making the non roller cam 302's in the late 80's, just to not be making two different engines. I think all the roller cam 302's will also have steel only cam timing gears. The plastic tooth cam gears were a dumb idea, but Ford made them for ages, back in the early 70's I think they started those.

Most SBF timing chain sets will be under $50 for stock level stuff, and should be at least all steel gears. It's a good maintenance item for a 20 year old car.
Don
1991 Red Special Edition, my 2nd SE, dead paint, DWS 255/45/17's on 95 Cobra wheels, and soon; DVD/Navi/backup camera, OBDII and the 347, before custom paint.
98 Mountaineer with Continental DWS 255/55/18's, big sway bars, custom brakes. Soon to be A4WD with XP8 bumpers and wing.

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Re: Timing Chain Replacement?

Postby beek0 » Thu Nov 02, 2017 2:47 pm

I think the cfi with the flat tappet cam used the single row timing set up and the HO with roller cam and high perf.head with higher spring pressure used the double row timing set. Has anybody with the cfi have a plastic gear?
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