Impossible Fuel Filling Problem

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Impossible Fuel Filling Problem

Postby Porterhouse » Fri Nov 15, 2013 5:42 pm

I tried to do a search, but came up empty-handed. I'm not even entirely sure what to search for.

Basically when I'm putting gas in the car anything over half a tank or so makes the pump click off as if it were full, even though there would be only half a tank of gas in the car. The gas is backing up to the top of the filler tube, and I have to wait for the level to go down again before I can resume pumping. After about one-half of one-tenth of a gallon the fuel will have once again backed up to the top of the fill tube, and I then have to wait for the level to go down again. I can then pump another one-half of one-tenth of a gallon, after which point it will be backed up to the top of the fill tube again, and...you get the idea. This process goes on for anywhere from three gallons left to fill, all the way up to seven gallons left to fill, in other words I'm always with the objective of filling the tank, and if I have to put in seven gallons to fill it up, I'm pumping that seven gallons in increments of one-half of one-tenth of a gallon at a time, with a pause of at least five seconds between each increment to let the level drop enough to take that next half a tenth.

My shop tried disconnecting the canister, which didn't alleviate the problem. They replaced the...ok, I'm not entirely sure what it's called, a breather hose? Vapor recovery tube? A tube that needs the tank to be dropped in order to replace it. This didn't fix my issue either.

People have suggested "holding the pump differently." That doesn't help. This problem happens whether the nozzle is all the way in or not, upside down, doesn't matter. And the gas guys always want to pump it themselves and always think the car is full. Then I have to get out, take the pump nozzle away from them, and somehow find the English (and the patience) to express, "no full. Gas tank broken. You no pump, I pump. No full." Needless to say, it's not only frustrating but time consuming. I'm out in the cold for half an hour or more, peering into my fill neck with a flashlight so I can see when the level drops. That's bad enough when it's 2AM on a Tuesday, but imagine trying to get gas when the next Hurricane Sandy happens. Half an hour or more, pumping a half of a tenth of a gallon at a time? I'll wind up getting shot.

While the tank was dropped they checked for obstructions and foreign objects and found none. Fuel pump works, sending unit works, fuel filter works, car doesn't stall except once in a while from a cold start. My gas gauge is more or less accurate, especially now that I've done the "orange wire fix." My next step, and this is purely trial and error, would have been to replace the gas tank.

Prolonged road tests are somewhat difficult, as I am also having a brake problem, in particular a pedal that occasionally won't compress. Evidently this might be a bad booster, but the point is that until that brake issue is sorted I can't say I feel comfortable driving this car very much.
1988 Mark VII LSC, "Old Faithful," 2nd Owner, Cobra R wheels, 1984 "Continental" style nose & badging, 183K, Owned since August 2001
1989 Mark VII LSC (deceased)
1995 Bronco Eddie Bauer, "The Adventuremobile," 351W, 225K, 4" BDS Lift, WAAG brush guard, 2.5" FM Super 44 exhaust, factory cargo shade
2016 Perception Conduit 13-ft kayak, "Colonel Sanders," technically a vehicle, new favorite toy.

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Re: Impossible Fuel Filling Problem

Postby CDW6212R » Fri Nov 15, 2013 8:35 pm

That is odd. I would suspect that what's happening is that air cannot get out of the tank(through the vent hose), from the top portion of the tank, to allow more fuel to go down into the main fill hose. Think through that logic process. The fuel cannot go in unless air can escape from the tank. That's what the vent hose is for primarily.

I read that someone has worked on it and supposedly replaced the vent hose etc. I'm betting that the problem is still related to the vent hose, either something is obstructing it inside the tank end, or at some point up to the filler neck opening of that vent hose.

FYI, these tanks will accept over 22 gallons, from a tank run virtually empty(not empty but as close as you want to try it).
Don
1991 Red Special Edition, my 2nd SE, dead paint, DWS 255/45/17's on 95 Cobra wheels, and soon; DVD/Navi/backup camera, OBDII and the 347, before custom paint.
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Re: Impossible Fuel Filling Problem

Postby Porterhouse » Fri Nov 15, 2013 9:26 pm

how do I troubleshoot this possibility without having to drop the tank again?
1988 Mark VII LSC, "Old Faithful," 2nd Owner, Cobra R wheels, 1984 "Continental" style nose & badging, 183K, Owned since August 2001
1989 Mark VII LSC (deceased)
1995 Bronco Eddie Bauer, "The Adventuremobile," 351W, 225K, 4" BDS Lift, WAAG brush guard, 2.5" FM Super 44 exhaust, factory cargo shade
2016 Perception Conduit 13-ft kayak, "Colonel Sanders," technically a vehicle, new favorite toy.

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Re: Impossible Fuel Filling Problem

Postby CDW6212R » Fri Nov 15, 2013 9:48 pm

Porterhouse wrote:how do I troubleshoot this possibility without having to drop the tank again?

I'm not positive about the location etc, of the upper vent opening at the fill point. But I would attempt to get to that and put a rubber hose to it(against it, just to seal to it), and gently blow into the hose to see how much resistance there is to airflow.

Beyond that basically it'll be a matter of starting to remove the fill neck and hoses from the top if possible, enough to see what can be found, without or before dropping the tank again. Something should be obvious with a careful inspection of the whole set of hoses/parts etc.

Hopefully they just missed it when they took the tank down before. There isn't much to get complicated or difficult there, the parts don't move around or go together in different arrangements I can't imagine. They should be able to figure it out. Don't forget to have them check the actual fill hose, for blockage or collapsing etc. You can lay under there and see if things look normal or okay at least.
Don
1991 Red Special Edition, my 2nd SE, dead paint, DWS 255/45/17's on 95 Cobra wheels, and soon; DVD/Navi/backup camera, OBDII and the 347, before custom paint.
98 Mountaineer with Continental DWS 255/55/18's, big sway bars, custom brakes. Soon to be A4WD with XP8 bumpers and wing.

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Re: Impossible Fuel Filling Problem

Postby Porterhouse » Fri Nov 15, 2013 10:18 pm

supposedly they did most or all of this when they had the car. they dropped the tank, checked everything for blockage, clogs etc, and changed out some hose or other. so basically I have to go back and pay them again to do the same poking around they've supposedly already done? not happening. and I'm definitely not taking the tank out myself either.

EDIT: I mean no offense, and no disrespect. I'm just very upset and disappointed at the moment.
1988 Mark VII LSC, "Old Faithful," 2nd Owner, Cobra R wheels, 1984 "Continental" style nose & badging, 183K, Owned since August 2001
1989 Mark VII LSC (deceased)
1995 Bronco Eddie Bauer, "The Adventuremobile," 351W, 225K, 4" BDS Lift, WAAG brush guard, 2.5" FM Super 44 exhaust, factory cargo shade
2016 Perception Conduit 13-ft kayak, "Colonel Sanders," technically a vehicle, new favorite toy.

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Re: Impossible Fuel Filling Problem

Postby oldschool1 » Sat Nov 16, 2013 2:48 am

Porterhouse,
Step 1. Don't sweat it.
Step 2. Don't look at your fuel gauge until after you've done this test.
Step 3. Test, replace/repair, test, enjoy.

Fill the tank until the fuel pump shuts off automatically.
Reset your MECHANICAL trip gauge on your speedometer. If you have a digital display just record your starting mileage and continue.
Drive the car for 200 miles in the city or 300 - 400 miles on the highway.
Strap a full five gallon gas can into the trunk of the car and now drive it until it stalls on left turns or on hills. At this point, YOUR IN TANK PUMP CAN NO LONGER SUCK FUEL FROM THE TANK. This does NOT mean that your tank is empty.
Drop the five gallons from the gas can into the tank and go to the nearest gas station and fill up, again letting the fuel pump automatically shut off. You should have been able to put 11 to 15 additional gallons into the tank. Anything less than that and your fuel pump strainer may have fallen off or is of the wrong type.

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OEM pump and strainer on the left. Replacement pump and strainer on the right.
I put my OEM strainer on the replacement pump because it reaches down farther than the replacement. People that have used the replacement strainer with the replacement pump have reported "running out of gas even though I could only fit ten gallons back into the tank".

The above test will tell you weather or not you have a strainer issue.

You can look at your fuel gauge now :)
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Re: Impossible Fuel Filling Problem

Postby Porterhouse » Sat Nov 16, 2013 4:46 am

the more repairs I do, the more enjoyable the car becomes. unfortunately the more repairs I *have to* do, the less enjoyable *ownership* seems.

any fix or test requiring opening the fuel tank, will require replacing the fuel tank, due to extreme rust.
1988 Mark VII LSC, "Old Faithful," 2nd Owner, Cobra R wheels, 1984 "Continental" style nose & badging, 183K, Owned since August 2001
1989 Mark VII LSC (deceased)
1995 Bronco Eddie Bauer, "The Adventuremobile," 351W, 225K, 4" BDS Lift, WAAG brush guard, 2.5" FM Super 44 exhaust, factory cargo shade
2016 Perception Conduit 13-ft kayak, "Colonel Sanders," technically a vehicle, new favorite toy.

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Re: Impossible Fuel Filling Problem

Postby Porterhouse » Sat Nov 16, 2013 5:18 am

/
Last edited by Porterhouse on Mon Dec 08, 2014 1:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
1988 Mark VII LSC, "Old Faithful," 2nd Owner, Cobra R wheels, 1984 "Continental" style nose & badging, 183K, Owned since August 2001
1989 Mark VII LSC (deceased)
1995 Bronco Eddie Bauer, "The Adventuremobile," 351W, 225K, 4" BDS Lift, WAAG brush guard, 2.5" FM Super 44 exhaust, factory cargo shade
2016 Perception Conduit 13-ft kayak, "Colonel Sanders," technically a vehicle, new favorite toy.

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Re: Impossible Fuel Filling Problem

Postby CDW6212R » Sat Nov 16, 2013 11:04 am

I agree with John that the strainer might be the wrong one(IE the Mustang part). But if, like his test would prove, if the tank will only accept say 15 gallons from when it is apparently empty, than it may be getting full, but not all of the gas is getting pumped out.

The brake issue is much bigger, deal with that first definitely.
Don
1991 Red Special Edition, my 2nd SE, dead paint, DWS 255/45/17's on 95 Cobra wheels, and soon; DVD/Navi/backup camera, OBDII and the 347, before custom paint.
98 Mountaineer with Continental DWS 255/55/18's, big sway bars, custom brakes. Soon to be A4WD with XP8 bumpers and wing.

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Re: Impossible Fuel Filling Problem

Postby Porterhouse » Mon Dec 08, 2014 1:13 am

I have to reopen this thread. I was going to make a new thread because I'd forgotten about this one. I tried searching for my problem and still, still, have found no results.

So here's the update.

Everything in my fuel system has been replaced except the fuel pump. I have a "new" fill neck and sending unit from http://www.lincolnmarkviiparts.com, along with a brand new fuel tank, vent tube and fuel filter. Even the gas cap has been replaced (and as a control I have two OEM caps available). Prior to replacement the tank had been dropped and examined multiple times by two reputable and competent shops in whom I have great faith. Everything that could have been blocked or obstructed has been blown out and cleared, or replaced entirely. The fuel pump has been given a clean bill of health.

After taking these steps, the gas pump still shuts off with approximately six gallons left of space in the tank. I am able to fill the remaining space with gas, but only in increments of, as I've previously mentioned, about a half of a tenth of a gallon at a time. That's not an exaggeration. I squeeze off about a half of a tenth of a gallon or so, and then the nozzle clicks off. So I squeeze off another half of a tenth of a gallon or so, and then it clicks off again. Repeat until these half-a-tenths have added up to around five to 7 full gallons, at which point the gas will have reached the top of the fill neck and stay there. Then and only then can I be completely sure the tank is in fact actually full.

Holding the nozzle differently, or at a different angle, or varying the pressure at which I squeeze the trigger, or going to a different gas station, make no difference whatsoever.

I'm stumped, two teams of mechanics are stumped, and after replacing almost literally every single component in this system with new or like-new parts, I appear to be out of options. This seemingly unsolvable problem makes me dread having to add even a couple of gallons of gas, which in turn makes me not want to drive the car.

Can anybody help, or is it hopeless?
1988 Mark VII LSC, "Old Faithful," 2nd Owner, Cobra R wheels, 1984 "Continental" style nose & badging, 183K, Owned since August 2001
1989 Mark VII LSC (deceased)
1995 Bronco Eddie Bauer, "The Adventuremobile," 351W, 225K, 4" BDS Lift, WAAG brush guard, 2.5" FM Super 44 exhaust, factory cargo shade
2016 Perception Conduit 13-ft kayak, "Colonel Sanders," technically a vehicle, new favorite toy.

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Re: Impossible Fuel Filling Problem

Postby K MANIAC » Mon Dec 08, 2014 2:20 am

After reading this thread, I have a question. When the automatic filling shuts off and before you add the additional gasoline, what does the fuel gauge read regarding fuel level?

Now I want to direct your attention to the factory service manual, 1989 Mark VII, page 24-50-2, the last paragraph under the heading "Fuel Tanks and Fillers":

"Fill limiting is accomplished through a fill pipe configuration and/or internal vent lines within the fill pipe and tank. The fill limiting system is designed to permit an air space (within the tank) when the tank is filled to capacity(using automatic shutoff equipment) of approximately 10 to 12 percent. This air space provides for thermal expansion of fuel and is necessary for proper function of the in-tank vapor vent system."

Porterhouse wrote:After taking these steps, the gas pump still shuts off with approximately six gallons left of space in the tank. I am able to fill the remaining space with gas, but only in increments of, as I've previously mentioned, about a half of a tenth of a gallon at a time. That's not an exaggeration. I squeeze off about a half of a tenth of a gallon or so, and then the nozzle clicks off. So I squeeze off another half of a tenth of a gallon or so, and then it clicks off again. Repeat until these half-a-tenths have added up to around five to 7 full gallons, at which point the gas will have reached the top of the fill neck and stay there. Then and only then can I be completely sure the tank is in fact actually full.


Let me state for the record that if you are filling your tank as you describe until the fuel level comes up to and stays at the "top of the filler neck", then you are forcing TOO MUCH FUEL into your fuel tank! The fuel tanks of all automobiles built in the last 40 years have been designed with a thermal expansion air gap within the tank. I don't believe there is anything WRONG with your gas tank or fuel system. And you are not the first person I have had to explain this situation to during my years on earth.
"This car may be old, but it will still climb Kirker Pass at 110!"- quote of the original owner of my green 1964 Chrysler 300-K

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Re: Impossible Fuel Filling Problem

Postby Porterhouse » Mon Dec 08, 2014 2:27 am

This doesn't happen with my Ford Bronco or the Lincoln Town Cars or Ford Crown Victorias I drive at work. Which is something that makes me suspect the problem is, in fact, a problem, and peculiar to this car. Moreover, I've owned this car since before 9/11, but I've only observed these reported symptoms within the past two years or so. This issue had not been present for very long before I first opened this thread a little over a year ago.

As for the gas gauge, it isn't precise, never has been. It will usually show full until I get down to about half a tank or so, and then begin to float around between readings of a quarter and three-quarters of a tank, even with the new sending unit. If I fill the car halfway, the gauge is already going to show me a full reading. When the car is actually, legitimately full, it goes all the way to the right of the gauge, past F, like it's supposed to do. The same as my Bronco does, the same as the Crown Vics and Town Cars at work.

I am aware you're not supposed to fill the tank ALL THE WAY until it overflows out of the fill neck, but that's the only way I know the tank is actually full.

To put it more simply, if this is a 22 gallon tank, I'm only able to put in 16 gallons from an empty tank before the problem appears. The only way I can be truly sure I've filled the car (because the gauge isn't an accurate indicator) is to fill it to overflowing.

EDIT: One other thing. The way I know this is really a problem as such, and not something designed in, is that the current state of affairs is AFTER I've tried to address the issue with all the troubleshooting and labor and new parts. It didn't used to be just six gallons, it used to be TEN that I'd have to force in there half of a tenth of a gallon at a time. There is simply no way my 22 gallon gas tank was designed to have a 10 gallon expansion pocket. Nope, not buying it.
1988 Mark VII LSC, "Old Faithful," 2nd Owner, Cobra R wheels, 1984 "Continental" style nose & badging, 183K, Owned since August 2001
1989 Mark VII LSC (deceased)
1995 Bronco Eddie Bauer, "The Adventuremobile," 351W, 225K, 4" BDS Lift, WAAG brush guard, 2.5" FM Super 44 exhaust, factory cargo shade
2016 Perception Conduit 13-ft kayak, "Colonel Sanders," technically a vehicle, new favorite toy.

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Re: Impossible Fuel Filling Problem

Postby K MANIAC » Mon Dec 08, 2014 11:28 am

Thank you for your reply and a more detailed description of the fuel filling and fuel gauge characteristics you have been experiencing. Here is my experience with my LSC:

When I fill the tank, I run it on slow automatic fill until it clicks off. Then slowly add a little more until it clicks off a second time (no overtopping or spillage). When I start the car, my fuel gauge will rise to just under the Full mark and stay there. I will drive the car until the fuel gauge drops into the red zone and stays there. With my driving habits it takes about 250-260 miles to get to the red zone (mostly around town stop and go with a little freeway). When I check the DTE on the trip computer, I still have 100+ miles to empty and my average fuel economy is 16 mpg. When I fill the tank at this point, it takes a little over 16 gallons before the nozzle clicks off, which is consistent with 16 mpg. Now, I don't believe that I have a 7 gallon air gap in my fuel tank. I believe that my fuel gauge is inaccurate, indicating there is less fuel in the tank than what is really in there. I believe that when my fuel gauge is in the red zone, I still have 5-6 gallons of fuel in the tank, which is verified by the DTE reading.

Speaking of fuel gauge accuracy, let's take a look at my Blass. The digital fuel gauge either reads F for full, E for empty, or the number of gallons remaining in between. When I got my Blass, it had a dead fuel pump and the fuel gauge read 14 gallons. Before I could replace the fuel pump (myself), I had to remove the excess fuel from the tank. I filled three 5-gallon jerry cans and still had a gallon or two left in the tank when I dropped it to replace the pump.

When it comes to refueling my Blass and Continental, I usually drive them until gauge reads 4 to 3 gallons left before I fill the tanks. They usually take about 15-16 gallons until the nozzle clicks off.

From my perspective, the best way to verify what is going on in your fuel tank is to completely drain it of all fuel, then physically measure how much fuel is added to the tank before you get automatic shut off of the nozzle. Anything less than that is just guessing. This should have been done when your tank was replaced or dropped. If this was done, I'm surprised you didn't mention it. If this hasn't been done, DO IT and let us know what you find.
"This car may be old, but it will still climb Kirker Pass at 110!"- quote of the original owner of my green 1964 Chrysler 300-K

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1989 Mark VII Bill Blass (Oxford White)
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1989 Mark VII LSC (Sandstone Metallic)
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Re: Impossible Fuel Filling Problem

Postby Porterhouse » Mon Dec 08, 2014 6:01 pm

Run it till empty and see what happens. I could do that.

If I recall, when the tank was replaced, the shop only put in a small amount of gas, a few gallons at the most, I'm not sure. While I didn't record the amout I put in when I took the car to be filled, I remember that it was something like 10 that went right in and another 10 that gave me trouble as described. But for the sake of science I'll try running it to empty again.
1988 Mark VII LSC, "Old Faithful," 2nd Owner, Cobra R wheels, 1984 "Continental" style nose & badging, 183K, Owned since August 2001
1989 Mark VII LSC (deceased)
1995 Bronco Eddie Bauer, "The Adventuremobile," 351W, 225K, 4" BDS Lift, WAAG brush guard, 2.5" FM Super 44 exhaust, factory cargo shade
2016 Perception Conduit 13-ft kayak, "Colonel Sanders," technically a vehicle, new favorite toy.

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Re: Impossible Fuel Filling Problem

Postby thunderjet » Sun Dec 14, 2014 10:59 pm

I had a similar issue when I swapped the fuel pump on my Thunderbird. Turns out I put the fuel filler neck too far into the tank when I reinstalled it. The tank wouldn't purge of air because of this. I raised up the fill neck and the problem went away. Make sure the fuel fill neck isn't inserted too far into the tank. It can cause your issue. FYI my Thunderbird uses the same 22 gallon tank as a Mark VII.
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Re: Impossible Fuel Filling Problem

Postby Porterhouse » Mon Dec 15, 2014 8:54 pm

Seems awfully strange that this should be happening through two tanks and two fill necks though.
1988 Mark VII LSC, "Old Faithful," 2nd Owner, Cobra R wheels, 1984 "Continental" style nose & badging, 183K, Owned since August 2001
1989 Mark VII LSC (deceased)
1995 Bronco Eddie Bauer, "The Adventuremobile," 351W, 225K, 4" BDS Lift, WAAG brush guard, 2.5" FM Super 44 exhaust, factory cargo shade
2016 Perception Conduit 13-ft kayak, "Colonel Sanders," technically a vehicle, new favorite toy.

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Re: Impossible Fuel Filling Problem

Postby Porterhouse » Mon Dec 22, 2014 4:25 am

I went as long as I could without refueling, but I needed to put gas in the car for the weekend because the Bronco is down for service.

Before I filled up, the DTE reading hovered around the 45-50 mile range, and the gauge was showing 3/8 to 1/4 tank, but of course on turns the needle would float on down to near E.

The trip odometer, reset at the last fill-up, indicated I had driven 211 miles, which of course doesn't account for things like idling the engine.

The car took 18.45 gallons of gas to fill it up, and by full I of course mean the point at which the fuel level backed up to the top of the fill tube and remained steady, because as I have mentioned this is the only way I know the car is really full. The DTE displayed 300 miles and the needle on the analog gauge sat firmly to the right of the F.

Of the 18.45 gallons of gas added to the mostly-empty 22 gallon tank, about 8 gallons had to be added in the aforementioned half-a-tenth-of-a-gallon increments. In other words I was able to add 11 gallons or so in the normal way, which is to say that I pumped and it went in. Then the pump clicked off as if the tank were full, which it obviously was not. At this point the "problem" returned, and I added the final 7+ gallons in the way described throughout this thread. Even accounting for an expansion pocket or the notion that you're not *normally* supposed to add gas until it backs up and overflows, it should be pretty clear that there is still something wrong when you're pumping eight gallons of gas at the rate of (half of a tenth of a gallon) (pump clicks off) (add another half of a tenth of a gallon) (pump clicks off) (add another half of a tenth of a gallon) (pump clicks off) (add another half of a tenth of a gallon) (pump clicks off)...you get the idea.

So what do I do next?
1988 Mark VII LSC, "Old Faithful," 2nd Owner, Cobra R wheels, 1984 "Continental" style nose & badging, 183K, Owned since August 2001
1989 Mark VII LSC (deceased)
1995 Bronco Eddie Bauer, "The Adventuremobile," 351W, 225K, 4" BDS Lift, WAAG brush guard, 2.5" FM Super 44 exhaust, factory cargo shade
2016 Perception Conduit 13-ft kayak, "Colonel Sanders," technically a vehicle, new favorite toy.

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Re: Impossible Fuel Filling Problem

Postby CDW6212R » Mon Dec 22, 2014 6:00 pm

I think I would remove the two(vent) fill hoses, and physically make sure they are clear of any obstacles. Only something in those should be able to cause the problem that you have. I've never had that issue, but maybe every 25+ fill ups I come upon a pump that seems to want to cut off too early, and lessening the pump lever amount helps a little. Since you are having the same problem every time, it must be the car, something with the hoses etc.
Don
1991 Red Special Edition, my 2nd SE, dead paint, DWS 255/45/17's on 95 Cobra wheels, and soon; DVD/Navi/backup camera, OBDII and the 347, before custom paint.
98 Mountaineer with Continental DWS 255/55/18's, big sway bars, custom brakes. Soon to be A4WD with XP8 bumpers and wing.

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Re: Impossible Fuel Filling Problem

Postby Porterhouse » Mon Dec 22, 2014 6:28 pm

the hoses have already been removed and cleared multiple times, not to mention replaced altogether.
1988 Mark VII LSC, "Old Faithful," 2nd Owner, Cobra R wheels, 1984 "Continental" style nose & badging, 183K, Owned since August 2001
1989 Mark VII LSC (deceased)
1995 Bronco Eddie Bauer, "The Adventuremobile," 351W, 225K, 4" BDS Lift, WAAG brush guard, 2.5" FM Super 44 exhaust, factory cargo shade
2016 Perception Conduit 13-ft kayak, "Colonel Sanders," technically a vehicle, new favorite toy.

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Re: Impossible Fuel Filling Problem

Postby K MANIAC » Mon Dec 22, 2014 6:57 pm

Porterhouse wrote:the hoses have already been removed and cleared multiple times, not to mention replaced altogether.


Did you do this work yourself or did you pay someone to do this for you? And if someone else did this work, did you watch them do this or are you taking their word that they did the work?
"This car may be old, but it will still climb Kirker Pass at 110!"- quote of the original owner of my green 1964 Chrysler 300-K

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1989 Mark VII Bill Blass (Oxford White)
1989 Mark VII LSC (Pewter Metallic)
1989 Mark VII LSC (Sandstone Metallic)
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Re: Impossible Fuel Filling Problem

Postby Porterhouse » Wed Dec 24, 2014 11:58 am

it's been done and checked more than once by more than one shop, both of whom I trust.
1988 Mark VII LSC, "Old Faithful," 2nd Owner, Cobra R wheels, 1984 "Continental" style nose & badging, 183K, Owned since August 2001
1989 Mark VII LSC (deceased)
1995 Bronco Eddie Bauer, "The Adventuremobile," 351W, 225K, 4" BDS Lift, WAAG brush guard, 2.5" FM Super 44 exhaust, factory cargo shade
2016 Perception Conduit 13-ft kayak, "Colonel Sanders," technically a vehicle, new favorite toy.

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Re: Impossible Fuel Filling Problem

Postby Dallas90LSC » Wed Dec 24, 2014 9:08 pm

Has the actual vent -not just the hoses- been inspected or replaced?
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Re: Impossible Fuel Filling Problem

Postby CDW6212R » Thu Dec 25, 2014 10:17 pm

Porterhouse wrote:it's been done and checked more than once by more than one shop, both of whom I trust.


We understand that, and we do want to help you solve the problem. I hate to say it, but I think a lot of us reading this have thought that we could take the tank out and insure that the passages are clear, and put it back in and have the tank fill properly. Someone has missed something.
Don
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Re: Impossible Fuel Filling Problem

Postby Porterhouse » Fri Jan 02, 2015 6:18 pm

Be that as it may, it still strikes me as highly unlikely that the top guys at two very reputable shops can have, on multiple occasions each, managed to repeatedly miss something that you guys all affirm any respectable shade-tree mechanic would have been able to find and fix immediately. I suppose I can't rule anything out until this stupid problem is fixed for good, if that's even possible, but I'm getting quite tired of shelling out again and again to have basically the same thing done again and again with the same results - or lack thereof.

On a side note, the latest trip to the pumps came at "DTE 150" and the analog gauge showing about 3/4 full. 4 gallons went in like normal, followed by about 6 and a half in those annoying half-a-tenth increments.
1988 Mark VII LSC, "Old Faithful," 2nd Owner, Cobra R wheels, 1984 "Continental" style nose & badging, 183K, Owned since August 2001
1989 Mark VII LSC (deceased)
1995 Bronco Eddie Bauer, "The Adventuremobile," 351W, 225K, 4" BDS Lift, WAAG brush guard, 2.5" FM Super 44 exhaust, factory cargo shade
2016 Perception Conduit 13-ft kayak, "Colonel Sanders," technically a vehicle, new favorite toy.

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Re: Impossible Fuel Filling Problem

Postby K MANIAC » Fri Jan 02, 2015 7:36 pm

I was thinking about you yesterday when I filled the tank in my LSC. I ran the tank down to DTE = 48 and the needle just above the red zone. The tank took 16.1 gallons on slow fill before automatic shut off. I squeezed an extra .3 gallons in on a second slow fill. My gauge reads slightly below F after each fill up. Yes, I understand that this is what you want your car to do and telling you only this doesn't help. And no, I'm not trying to rub anything in.

Now I do have a couple more questions to ask. When you refill your gasoline tank and experience this problem, 1) is this always at the same gasoline station or at different stations? And if it is at the same station, 2) is it from the same pump or a different pump?

Having this happen at different stations and pumps would narrow the problem down to a venting issue with the filler neck. If, however, you are filling from the same pump at the same station everytime, the problem is more likely with the automatic shutoff setting of the pump and not your car. I ask because I am a creature of habit and so far use the same station and many times the same pump when I refill my LSC.

What state do you live in? Here in California, the smog nazies forced the use of vapor recovery nozzles at our fuel stations. Does your state require such nozzles and does your gasoline stations use them?
"This car may be old, but it will still climb Kirker Pass at 110!"- quote of the original owner of my green 1964 Chrysler 300-K

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